Help / advice needed

13Kent

I think she's making threats to try and get you to pay up. If you haven't had an open case with the CSA in the past then they can't backdate it, however she can open a new case, but there will be fees for that see here https://www.gov.uk/child-maintenance/overview

You may find that you may be liable to pay for the child that's on an apprenticeship she can only claim maintenance if she is still getting child benefit for that child which she may be even if they are being paid in their own right, but you can calculate how much you might be liable for here https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-child-maintenance

fisherman1970

Seems apprenticeships are a cloudy issue..?

13Kent

It all hinges on whether child benefit is being paid or not. Here are the rules regarding child benefit payments and education. It depends on whether the apprenticeship is counted as approved education or not - see here https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit-16-19

HoneyNutLoop

fisherman1970 wrote: »

Seems apprenticeships are a cloudy issue..?

It's now a lot clearer than it used to be. As it's paid, she won't be eligible for child benefit. See link attached.
http://www.careersadviceforparents.org/p/money-matters.html?m=1

fisherman1970

HoneyNutLoop wrote: »

It's now a lot clearer than it used to be. As it's paid, she won't be eligible for child benefit. See link

Thanks for that..you have been v helpful.

13Kent

Things must have changed recently then because we were paying for a 'child' who signed on with connexions and then went on to do a paid apprenticeship. Child benefit in our case was still payable for the duration of the apprenticeship and therefore CSA was also still payable.

I think in our case the apprenticeship was an NVQ level 3 which still counted as approved education rather than paid employment even though the child was being paid.

13Kent

Unfortunately it's all a bit of a minefield. The clearest indication is whether Child Benefit is being paid. For an existing case you can ask the CSA to check whether CB is still being paid. If it is you continue to pay Child Maintenance, if not (as we suspected after the child had been working for more than a year and we assumed the apprenticeship had come to an end so asked them to check) then your liability ends. As you don't have an existing case I am not sure if you would be able to check if the PWC is getting CB or not.

HoneyNutLoop

13Kent wrote: »

Unfortunately it's all a bit of a minefield. The clearest indication is whether Child Benefit is being paid. For an existing case you can ask the CSA to check whether CB is still being paid. If it is you continue to pay Child Maintenance, if not (as we suspected after the child had been working for more than a year and we assumed the apprenticeship had come to an end so asked them to check) then your liability ends. As you don't have an existing case I am not sure if you would be able to check if the PWC is getting CB or not.

I don't know how recently. It may be that it's changed since you went through it, that there was some other relevant factor in your case that made the difference, that your PWC was fraudulently claiming child benefit or the CSA made a mistake. Who knows?

This debate happened in November 14, where the MP is campaigning for a change to Child Benefit and tax credits so they remain in payment for apprenticeships. This supports the other link about which do and do not count as qualifying:
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2014-11-18b.141.0

13Kent

It was quite recently, and we checked and double checked at the time as we were aware that the child in question was earning a wage.

It's because it was an NVQ 3 which is counted as continued education here
Approved education

Education must be full-time (more than an average of 12 hours a week supervised study or course-related work experience) and can include:

• A levels or similar - eg Pre-U, International Baccalaureate
• Scottish Highers
• NVQs and other vocational qualifications up to level 3
• home education - if started before your child turned 16
• traineeships in England

As although the child was working there was also a requirement to go to college for part of the course which fitted in with the required hours for education.

HoneyNutLoop

13Kent wrote: »

It was quite recently, and we checked and double checked at the time as we were aware that the child in question was earning a wage.

It's because it was an NVQ 3 which is counted as continued education here
Approved education

Education must be full-time (more than an average of 12 hours a week supervised study or course-related work experience) and can include:

• A levels or similar - eg Pre-U, International Baccalaureate
• Scottish Highers
• NVQs and other vocational qualifications up to level 3
• home education - if started before your child turned 16
• traineeships in England

As although the child was working there was also a requirement to go to college for part of the course which fitted in with the required hours for education.

When you say checked and double checked, do you mean you appealed the decision to HM Courts and Tribunals Service? Or you had a number of conversations with the CSA?

There are a number of criteria that need to be met for it to be approved education or training. I've copied the full text from gov.uk, as the above is a partial quote:

Approved education
Education must be full-time (more than an average of 12 hours a week supervised study or course-related work experience) and can include:

• A levels or similar - eg Pre-U, International Baccalaureate;
• Scottish Highers;
• NVQs and other vocational qualifications up to level 3;
• home education - if started before your child turned 16;
• traineeships in England

Courses are not approved if paid for by an employer or ‘advanced’, eg a university degree or BTEC Higher National Certificate.

Approved training
Approved training should be unpaid and can include:

• Foundation Apprenticeships or Traineeships in Wales;
• Employability Fund programmes or Get Ready for Work (if started before 1 April 2013) in Scotland;
• United Youth Pilot, Training for Success, Pathways to Success or Collaboration and Innovation Programme in Northern Ireland;

Courses that are part of a job contract are not approved.

Apprenticeships normally fall outwith the criteria for a number of reasons:
Normally the apprentice only attends an educational course one day a week, so doesn't meet the 12 hour criteria, the course is normally provided by virtue of their employment and often forms part of the job/apprenticeship contract, and most apprenticeships are paid.

HMRC'so technical guide helps clarify things:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/cbtmanual/cbtm07020.htm

If the child in your case had an apprenticeship, and then separately enrolled themselves on a full-time level 3 NVQ course with a local college, they would still qualify for child benefit. If the NVQ course formed part of a paid apprenticeship provided by an employer, they wouldn't.

I can't find a copy of the regulations with all the amendments reflected, only the original version with a list of all the later SI's amending it, which makes it difficult to read.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/changes/affected/uksi/2006/223?results-count=50&sort=affecting-year-number&order=descending