Private rentals cost the state less than council homes

lisyloo

There would be no debate about that :-)

ukcarper

wotsthat wrote: »

The lack of homeowner status isn't an indicator that people need subsidised housing.

If I'm getting free gruel I'm less likely to invest in a gruel factory.

No but most people who could afford to buy did and the discounts on offer made it cheaper than paying discounted rents.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

No, not if you fear your position may be challenged. I note, for example, you refer to lifetime tenancies....again to prove your point.. Something which no longer exists.

Are you saying someone getting a council house based on need who's circumstances changed have to move out? It can't be assumed they could stay for life? Hmmm

At least with HB you only qualify until you don't.

It's a diversion anyway. The OP is trying to compare costs of private vs social - it doesn't matter if we're talking about one person for life or many.

Graham_Devon wrote: »

As for the OP's sums. Wildly out. I note that the 200k house still commands the same 7k rent as it did 10 years previous for instance.

Work it out using your own methodology then instead of cherry picking something and thinking that disproves the basic premise.

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Think it's called confirmation bias. And this thread has it by the bucketload.

The 'housing is different' goggle have gone on. Easy to tell - a worked example of a maths problem causes irrational indignation.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

Are you saying someone getting a council house based on need who's circumstances changed have to move out? It can't be assumed they could stay for life? Hmmm

Yes.

This is the way it works now. Housing benefit pays for your council rent on all newer "council" housing. If you stop receiving or face a reduction in housing benefit you have to make up the loss yourself. You seem to be confusing housing benefit and council rent. They are both the same thing. You need to be on housing benefit to get a council place in the first place.

It's still cheaper rent than the equivalent private rent, granted. A typical council flat rent around here will be around £75 less than a private equivalent rent.

You do get security of tenure though, in that you are less likely to be moved on as it were.

However, the basic premise of your argument - yes, if you no longer qualify for housing benefit, you either pay the rent yourself or move on. You don't just sit there for life on continual housing benefit. If you don't pay, they will get you out. The council however is in the tricky situation of then having to re-home you. That's a bit of a merry go round, but that's not really the fault of council buildings.

Your idea and understanding of the way council housing works today appears to be stuck firmly in the 1960's.

wotsthat

ukcarper wrote: »

No but most people who could afford to buy did and the discounts on offer made it cheaper than paying discounted rents.

Not being able to afford (or want) a council house even at a discounted price is no indicator that a person needs a subsidised rent.

It's a downward spiral. Someone gets a council house based on need and they can either a) buy or b) not buy where (b) proves they still need it.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Yes.

This is the way it works now. Housing benefit pays for your council rent on all newer "council" housing. If you stop receiving or face a reduction in housing benefit you have to make up the loss yourself. You seem to be confusing housing benefit and council rent. They are both the same thing. You need to be on housing benefit to get a council place in the first place.

It's still cheaper rent than the equivalent private rent, granted. A typical council flat rent around here will be around £75 less than a private equivalent rent.

You do get security of tenure though, in that you are less likely to be moved on as it were.

However, the basic premise of your argument - yes, if you no longer qualify for housing benefit, you either pay the rent yourself or move on. You don't just sit there for life on continual housing benefit.

You say yes but seem to describe no.

If someone in council sees an improvement in circumstances and would no longer qualify for their place but still receive a discount against market rates and can block people who do qualify that describes exactly the point I'm making.

Question is would it be cheaper for the private sector to provide this housing? It would certainly stop the nonsense of subsiding houses instead of people.

EDIT: Should say I think a discount against market rents is a subsidy. You, wrongly, don't and only consider HB a subsidy and so ignores the inefficient use of taxpayers money.

ukcarper

wotsthat wrote: »

Not being able to afford (or want) a council house even at a discounted price is no indicator that a person needs a subsidised rent.

It's a downward spiral. Someone gets a council house based on need and they can either a) buy or b) not buy where (b) proves they still need it.

I'd say it is as the cost of buying is no more than rent as both are subsidised most people who could afford to buy bought admittedly not everyone but the majority. What would you do in that position buy knowing at some time you will own outright and be rent free or carry on paying increasing rent.

Carl31

Isn't social housing built by the council/associations?

I'd always assumed they would depreciate the properties at cost, offsetting tenants social rents against it, hence removing market influences and meaning they can charge below market rates

ukcarper

wotsthat wrote: »

Are you saying someone getting a council house based on need who's circumstances changed have to move out? It can't be assumed they could stay for life? Hmmm
.

Difficult to say what will happen as non lifetime tenancies are knew but most new tenancies are not for life.

stator

Your figures are rather silly.
Assuming that the LL sells after 10 years and houses have double in value again? Come off it. Why not just pretend house prices will increase by 5000% and then your figures look even better!