Commercial and Domestic Invesitgations

AshJack

So an update on the situation: I still haven't received a letter through the post from Commercial and Domestic Investigation. However, this morning i received an email from Daniels Silvermann Ltd - Debt Collectors.

On the email it states that there is a outstanding balance, gives me a reference number etc and provides an address. It doesn't give me anything but tells me to pay up. So i'll send the letter that i was going to send to CDI.

But makes me think the trader is making the rounds on Debt Collection agencies.

sourcrates

AshJack wrote: »

So an update on the situation: I still haven't received a letter through the post from Commercial and Domestic Investigation. However, this morning i received an email from Daniels Silvermann Ltd - Debt Collectors.

On the email it states that there is a outstanding balance, gives me a reference number etc and provides an address. It doesn't give me anything but tells me to pay up. So i'll send the letter that i was going to send to CDI.

But makes me think the trader is making the rounds on Debt Collection agencies.

Sounds that way, if you dispute the debt with one, they cant be arsed to play letter tennis, when all there after is a quick buck.


You may find this happens a few times until your old mate gets bored, or dies of old age, keep on sending the denials !!!

AshJack

Thanks:-) Here's hoping he does get bored!!

AshJack

So yesterday I opened the door to find a recorded delivery letter from this trader and now I’m sorry to say I’m back again on here to ask for advice.

The letter (with an address now for the trader) included the invoice he sent me, along with a copy of a text message that I sent him earlier back in June. He’s claiming the amount, now plus interest. He’s asking for the telephone number of the trader who’s rectified his work. A contact number for people I didn’t pay... (I really am astonished at this, this is all coming from me telling him that as the guys I had doing the bathroom asked for money each day, I didn’t like it so I’d hired him (this trader) because it was invoice at end of job, but I have definitely paid.. incredible. If I have a past littered with non-payments, I’m sure the courts will be able to find it) I’m so annoyed at his utter blatant lying, I want to phone him up and say where on earth do you get off trying to claim the moral high ground here??!! Then he has the gall to say he’s willing to go to mediation or alternative dispute resolution in order to avoid the courts.

So he’s asking for my “response within 14 days. Apparently if he doesn’t receive a response to my letter within this time frame, he anticipates court action will commence with no further reference to me.”

I feel like I’ve done all I can and really don’t want to respond, because my response to him will now not be polite. But I feel that I should, should this go to court.

He’s claiming he’s not VAT registered which is why there is no VAT on the invoice. Apparently the package he uses doesn’t allow an address on his invoices, which is why there’s no address on it. Apparently, I don’t have a right to demand the work being completed before an agreed date, the amount of deadlines I’ve given him, seriously? So what I should have waited endlessly?

There’s nothing on there with my request for proper paperwork, or a proper quote (with the correct items listed), etc. But interestingly, his own words go a long way to proving his invoice is a lie, as on the invoice he never put the doors, radiators, etc., but now he’s claiming he did everything but the doors, etc.

To respond to his claims, the text message was from the early stages of this fiasco. This was after he'd started the hallway, but hadn't caulked around the front door, or removed the paint he had on the PVC doors (not to mention didn’t sand the skirting). This was mid-June, I was getting annoyed, but still hoping he'd come and do the work. I told him if he did the painting, the staining of the doors could wait as long as it was before 7th July - he didn't respond. But then called, he said he'd come back on the 20th then didn't turn up. I texted him on the 20th with no response.

He only includes the texts I sent and has edited out the bits I wrote. I.e. when he didn't turn up, I wrote – “minor stuff in the rooms as I didn’t want to move into the bedrooms (he was telling me to move into the room and he’d paint around the furniture) the doors could wait as long as it was before 7th July” i.e. painting the room, etc. (I assumed this is an easy job so wrote this in the hope he'd come round, then get him to commit to the doors which I assumed would require more work, i.e. sanding/staining), he didn't respond. This was on 15th June, at this point I was still trying to get him to come back.

He then said he'd turn up on the 27th June, I told him to bring caulk, then I also reminded him of the crack in the plaster in the living room, which at the time he'd said he could fill with easy filler but when he turned up to paint hallway initially, he said he’d forgotten the caulk and the easy filler at the time – which was right at the beginning.

He's now also claiming I agreed staggered payments, therefore he didn't have to complete before the end of the final payment. (Once again, I find it astonishing that if this was truly the case, he’d not have contacted me, months ago for the payment? He only contacted me for it, when he realised I wasn’t going to go back on the final deadline I gave him)

He then proceeds to threaten to send this letter along with mine to him via email printed out to my neighbours.

He then threatens to keep the Debt Collection letters continuing.

He then threatens to go to Foster agencies in question of my morality. (At the time of him plastering my living room, I’d told him I’d hoped to foster as there was something on the radio about wanting foster parents)

He then claims I gave him a false name initially, which is rubbish, I got him through rated people where I have a username. So initially before I hired him for plastering it was a nickname, but he has my real name so I really don’t know where he’s coming from with this.

So now I’m wondering, do I respond to these threats? His claims? Or leave it? I honestly wish to ignore it, but not sure if it’s the right thing to do.

I apologise for the extra-long message, I’m just so frustrated, I hate that he’s trying to come across like I’ve done something wrong, is threatening me with all these things, then claiming he’s not threatening me, then making it sound like I’m the one fabricating things here.

Reya

I can't help with the financial details of this, but I can make one suggestion:

You said that he enclosed "...a copy of a text message that I sent him earlier back in June [ ... ] He only includes the texts I sent and has edited out the bits I wrote...". This (the fact that he edited it) makes me think that he just typed out the message, rather than including a screenshot of it from his phone.

Assuming that you still have the full text conversation on your phone (or, if on an old memory card, put that one back in your phone to retrieve it) then screenshot the actual full text conversation. Most smartphones have a screenshot option (example: on my Android phone it's an option when you long-press the on/off button; google for how to do it on your own phone) and by taking screenshots you have proof of what was actually written, right there on the phone screen. It's un-editable (unless you fancy fiddling in Photoshop) and you can scroll down the message thread, making sure you include the last line of the previous message at the start of the next message, just to prove you've not missed anything out. Then, backup those screenshots somewhere (eg: computer or online storage such as Dropbox or Google Drive), so you can use them to refute any claims he makes about that conversation. You may never need them, but they're just a good bit of backup to have, in the event that this escalates.

patman99

I think a curt letter back to him pointing-out that as he failed to finish the work he was contracted to undertake, YOU are within your rights to claim back from him any additional costs incurred from hiring another tradesman to complete said works and as for the threat of 'telling the neighbours', if he wants to lose potential customers, then thats down to him.

If he is stupid enough to try letter-bombing the neighbourhood, then he better be carefull what he writes in the letter as he could find himself on the wrong end of a libel case.

fatbelly

AshJack wrote: »

He then proceeds to threaten to send this letter along with mine to him via email printed out to my neighbours.

He then threatens to keep the Debt Collection letters continuing.

He then threatens to go to Foster agencies in question of my morality. (At the time of him plastering my living room, I’d told him I’d hoped to foster as there was something on the radio about wanting foster parents)

So now I’m wondering, do I respond to these threats? His claims? Or leave it? I honestly wish to ignore it, but not sure if it’s the right thing to do.

My feeling is that you've each made your position clear. Well you have. He's just demonstrating that he's a berk.

I'd ignore it but obviously keep it safe. I suspect you may get more of the same before he risks his money on a court claim. If he was seriously considering a claim there would be no need to threaten the harassment which, incidentally, is a criminal offence. Trading Standards might be interested.

DandelionPatrol

patman99 wrote: »

I think a curt letter back to him pointing-out that as he failed to finish the work he was contracted to undertake, YOU are within your rights to claim back from him any additional costs incurred from hiring another tradesman to complete said works and as for the threat of 'telling the neighbours', if he wants to lose potential customers, then thats down to him.

If he is stupid enough to try letter-bombing the neighbourhood, then he better be carefull what he writes in the letter as he could find himself on the wrong end of a libel case.

I agree.

Although I am a little bothered about one aspect. The guy has done a small amount of work for which he has not been paid. This should be put right by making a 'full and final' offer 'without prejudice' for a fair amount. The fair amount is his original quote for the work less the cost of completion by other contractors. If that amount is negative, then it is worth offering a nominal £5.

Any letter to this clown should be short and should address 3 issues

• Offer payment for the work done
• The making of a threat to tell the neighbours is deemed an act of harassment [harassment is 2 strikes - he has already made 1 strike with the threat!]
• Engaging any other debt collector will also be deemed as harassment

If further approaches are made by debt collectors, a 1 line letter stating that the bill is in dispute should be enough to see them off. Debt collectors can deal with can't pay and won't pay, but they only like provable debts.

AshJack

Thank you everyone, I think I would have gone crazy by now, if I didn't have this forum to come to.

I've saved all my text messages to him and made sure to keep everything he sends me.

Fatbelly – thanks - I don’t use the word ‘threaten’ or 'harassment' lightly, especially when I’m female and on my own (as it seems like i'm using it for the sake of it), but this is how everything he’s doing comes across now. Instantly, from me not responding to a text message to him when he wanted to finally come back (I didn't respond for 4 hours), he's then started threatening me. So a lot of my frustration comes from there is no real engagement here, he's just lying and threatening. I'm getting all stressed because I can't not answer, but nothing I do seems to get closure or get an honest response.

I want to respond, but then think it’s probably best to let it go now and see what happens if he does decide to take the step to court. I can imagine anything in response to what I send, will just be more threats and lies. My concern is, if it did, would I seem unreasonable in not responding?

I certainly don't want to be giving out contact details of anyone else to this man, if need be I would provide details of the people who've carried out the work he didn't do. The company is still here, and now doing the doors, he never did. As for other proof of not paying people, if I really was this kind of person, surely I'd have not paid him for the plastering either? I'm not worried here because I know that this is untrue and surely a check or some kind of history would be found if i was lying, I’m more insulted and annoyed, stressed because of the blatant constant lies.

Anything I’ve told him he's now using to threaten me with. I'm quite a private person, so I know he's mentioned neighbours because he knew when he was doing the plastering (he got paid for that the next day, after completion) that I don't really talk to my neighbours. Unfortunately for him, I do communicate with a couple two doors down, who not only saw the work undone (and listened to my frustration for months on end), but also is part of neighbourhood watch. I know the foster thing, is all talk, but to even use it as a threat, says enough as it is. Luckily, the Debt Collectors bit, I learnt how I can respond to them on here.

DandelionPatrol - thanks - that's a fair point. If I was to offer him anything, it would be for cost of paint for the hallway, (which he started, but didn’t complete) are materials he left behind. The painting was slapdash, (I still have pictures of places he missed) and I ended up going round with paint remover to remove it from the PVC door, the caulking still isn't done but these guys I have in now will do it. The sanding of the skirting boards of the hallway, I’m debating just leaving or taking up myself. The only reason I asked him to do it was because of the sanding, caulking, doors, radiators, etc., (things I thought I couldn't do and didn't want to ask friends to help with) none of which happened. I think it has escalated to this, because the Debt Collectors have said they can't do anything. A part of me feels I should respond to him with the suggestion on paying the £19.23 for the paint and leave it at that, but then I don't think I'll get a reasonable reponse, so I thought if it gets to court or true mediation then that's what I'd offer.

As for everything else, the builders are doing it now, the painting of the rest I did myself with friends. I couldn't take anymore, this builder I have now is recommended to me from a friend.

He wrote he’s been doing this for 13 years with no issues, if this is true, I’m not surprised people have given in to his harassment and paid. A lot of his customers he told me (those chasing him during the plastering) were of an older generation or landlords, which tells me either they had time to wait on him, or he probably bullied them or gave them the same excuse he did me, when they chased him.

This is constantly praying on my mind and if it wasn’t for the fact that I know I’ve done everything for four months to get him to do the work, he’s not done the work he’s claiming he did – I’d have paid just to stop this. So can imagine, if he hasn’t been to court, it’s because people just wanted to stop the harassment.

sourcrates

Ok,


This has moved on now, from a demand for payment, to harassment.
Personally, I would not engage with the fellow any longer, and certainly don't make him any offers of a financial nature, at this juncture.

I suspect you are not the first person he has done this too, and you probably wont be the last.

Any more correspondence from debt collectors can be ignored, or sent on there way, by means of a dispute letter, they are only acting on his behalf, and have no power to do anything.

What I would do, is save every little piece of correspondence you have from him, and the DCA, put it somewhere safe, I doubt very much he will take it further, as you have evidence against him, but you can never quantify stupid.

If he continues to chase this, then I would contact your local trading standards, and make a complaint against him, also check out the BBC rouge trader/watchdog website, fire an email off to them, its amazing how these kind of people tend to back off when you start to fight back, you never know, trading standards may have a file a foot thick on this guy, and you may be all they need to prosecute him.


https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/contact


https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/get-more-help/report-to-trading-standards/