Split tickets and missed connections

Quentin

barbarawright wrote: »

Weldroam pointed to the MSE article. Which clause in the NRCoC proves your point? And have you successfully travelled in a different train from the one your ticket is for by claiming you missed your previous train even if it was booked separately?

Wealdroam pointed to the MSE article regarding split tickets in #5 so you could learn more about split tickets, and also pointed you to Condition 19 (in #5 too).


Why are you prolonging this issue by now asking me for the clause?


Just have the decency to stand corrected.



In answer to your question I have been provided a taxi to complete my journey (with split tickets) when I missed the last train home when the connecting train arrived late. My ticket covered the journey on the late train. I had a separate ticket for the final leg.

Owain_Moneysaver

barbarawright wrote: »

According to that article "In the rare event that you book specific tickets, your split ticket stop coincides with the station where you change trains, and your first train runs late, then your second ticket might not be valid for the next leg of the journey. "

That would be correct, if you had not allowed the minimum connection time and therefore you would not have a valid journey for ticketing purposes (even if in practice it's often possible to make a connection with less than the minimum time, sometimes even if delayed eg if you're on an express that's running in front of a local on the same line, even if the express is delayed the local can't overtake it.

yorkie2

barbarawright wrote: »

But this wouldn't be regarded as the same journey if you havent' bought a through ticket, would it|?

Yes it would. Have you read the National Rail Conditions of Carriage? I guess not. The relevant condition is Condition 19. You can find details in the link provided in the opening post.

yorkie2

barbarawright wrote: »

Weldroam pointed to the MSE article. Which clause in the NRCoC proves your point?

Condition 19.

barbarawright wrote: »

And have you successfully travelled in a different train from the one your ticket is for by claiming you missed your previous train even if it was booked separately?

It makes no difference if it was "booked separately", however anyone who wants peace of mind can use the website Trainsplit.com, which will give you one itinerary for your journey across however many tickets offers best value, and the booking confirmation makes it very clear that you are covered for the entire journey in the event of a delay to any train.

yorkie2

Owain_Moneysaver wrote: »

That would be correct, if you had not allowed the minimum connection time and therefore you would not have a valid journey for ticketing purposes (even if in practice it's often possible to make a connection with less than the minimum time, sometimes even if delayed eg if you're on an express that's running in front of a local on the same line, even if the express is delayed the local can't overtake it.

Agreed. If people book a combination of tickets and don't plan accordingly they might run into problems. A bit of research and you'll be fine. If anyone wants peace of mind, Trainsplit.com sorts it all out and ensures the itinerary is a valid one, adhering to minimum interchange times.

yorkie2

rev_henry wrote: »

So that was all well and good, however the ticket office clerk insisted on lecturing me for several minutes that this was incorrect, it doesn't matter what NRCoC say, if one leg is delayed causing me to miss a connection I will have to buy a brand new ticket. He was especially concerned that I had only allowed an 8 minute connection time at Wolverhampton and 14 at New Street and was extremely reluctant to sell me the split tickets I wanted. Despite those connection times being sufficient to cover the minimum connection time and that my overall journey was the same as an official one booked on a through ticket, so to speak. In the end he did, I could see we were getting nowhere as I remain convinced he was wrong and I was right.

What Train Company was this? Please write to them.

The minimum interchange times are 7min at WVH and 12min at BHM, so I concur your itinerary was valid.

The ticket clerk is compelled to sell the combination under the terms of the Ticketing Settlement Agreement (TSA). Compliance with the TSA is a franchise commitment for all Train Companies.

rev_henry wrote: »

So, am I right? Was he wrong? Trouble with railforums is it has all this information but no citations - I can hardly print off a forum post and show it to station staff if one of my connections lets me down. 'Someone on the internet said...'

It does have citations; on the post you linked to there is a quote from, and link to, the NRCoC. NR have changed the link, so it was broken. I have fixed that (I am not the author of that article; that's SickyNicky the author of Trainsplit, but I am the founder of that forum) so the link now works.

Furthermore, there is clarification in the rail industry's internal knowledge base. An extract of the relevant page relating to Advance tickets can be found as an attachment at 1.1.3 Advance Tickets(see Q04)

Hope that helps!

rev_henry

yorkie2 wrote: »

Condition 19.

It makes no difference if it was "booked separately", however anyone who wants peace of mind can use the website Trainsplit.com, which will give you one itinerary for your journey across however many tickets offers best value, and the booking confirmation makes it very clear that you are covered for the entire journey in the event of a delay to any train.

Interestingly Trainsplit wouldn't work for my journey. I worked it all out myself, using ticketysplit as a starting point, then tried to use trainsplit just to confirm and it wouldn't have it.

yorkie2 wrote: »

What Train Company was this? Please write to them.

The minimum interchange times are 7min at WVH and 12min at BHM, so I concur your itinerary was valid.

The ticket clerk is compelled to sell the combination under the terms of the Ticketing Settlement Agreement (TSA). Compliance with the TSA is a franchise commitment for all Train Companies.
It does have citations; on the post you linked to there is a quote from, and link to, the NRCoC. NR have changed the link, so it was broken. I have fixed that (I am not the author of that article; that's SickyNicky the author of Trainsplit, but I am the founder of that forum) so the link now works.

Furthermore, there is clarification in the rail industry's internal knowledge base. An extract of the relevant page relating to Advance tickets can be found as an attachment at 1.1.3 Advance Tickets(see Q04)

Hope that helps!

Yes that's very helpful, thank you. I couldn't be bothered making a railforums account just to ask this question! It was Virgin West Coast. He was very much of the opinion 'I have worked on the railways all my life, I have friends who work at New Street, I know how it works.'
The itinerary I've booked is exactly the same as the suggested itinerary had I booked a through ticket. I made sure of that. I've 8 mins at WVH (which he described as 'scary') and 14 at BHM, iirc. Although he's put me on a return train 20 mins earlier than I wanted. :mad: Doesn't make any difference to my journey other than having to get up 20 mins earlier fortunately. All of this is exactly why I would much rather have bought the tickets myself online, I knew what I was doing without his 'advice' (although I've no doubt it was well meant, he was simply wrong!), I've been buying splits since I was about 15. But I couldn't as I had rail travel vouchers to use.