Rogue landlords and licensing

Graham_Devon

kinger101 wrote: »

No, it's still nonsense. The "if" conditions hasn't been met by any stretch of the imagination. And it still blurs the lines (as do you) between the criminal and civil systems. A civil court cannot send someone directly to "jail".

"Rouge landlord" is about as meaningful a term as "naughty person". There is no such criminal or civil offence.

Oh dear. That's the point.

They want to change the law as it stands in order to be able to take housing matters into the criminal court, and, if neccesary and justifiable, see the landlord get sentenced to a stretch in prison.

They would need proper regulation running in order to do this. Hence the call for more stringent regulation.

As for your rogue landlord issue, what descriptor would you prefer?

Can I safely assume you are a landlord yourself?

antrobus

kinger101 wrote: »

No, it's still nonsense. The "if" conditions hasn't been met by any stretch of the imagination. And it still blurs the lines (as do you) between the criminal and civil systems. A civil court cannot send someone directly to "jail".

"Rouge landlord" is about as meaningful a term as "naughty person". There is no such criminal or civil offence.

I am inclined to agree. Yet again. Criminal law is all mens rea and actus reus, jury trials are expensive to run, and it costs at least £34k a year to lock someone up.

Issue a fine, stick a CO on the property, and CPO it if they don't cough up.:)

kinger101

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Oh dear. That's the point.

They want to change the law as it stands in order to be able to take housing matters into the criminal court, and, if neccesary and justifiable, see the landlord get sentenced to a stretch in prison.

They would need proper regulation running in order to do this. Hence the call for more stringent regulation.

It doesn't say that at all. The articles state what the courts should do. The changes you're suggesting requires a change to primary legislation, which is the responsibility of the houses of parliament. And then it still needs someone to prosecute. Do you know how much it costs to send someone to prison? Why is this a more effective than just imposing fines.

You should be very suspicious of anyone calling for new laws who cannot say where the current defects are.

CLAPTON

it would seem inappropriate to charge a lndlord with many properties a higher fine than a landlord with a small number of properties if they commit the same offence on a single property.
obviously if an offence were committed on mamny properties then the fine should be proportionate.

PasturesNew

I half saw/heard the man on this morning's news about this.... he was holding back, but pretty adamant and furious that the few rogue landlords that exist are a real blot on the landscape.

They don't care about fines because they've mostly got hundreds of equally bad houses and are raking in £10,000s of rent/week. Water off a duck's back.

He stated instances where people had come home to find somebody else living in their place.

This isn't about landlords who accidentally forget the gas certificate for a week or so, or those who let the loo leak for a year, or those that use last year's AST instead of this year's updated laws one ....it's about landlords whose sole objective is to heap misery upon the heads of those unfortunate enough to have their rights swept aside with a sneer and a threat. Landlords who accumulate swathes of rough/tatty property that they let fall into complete disrepair, while threatening tenants and illegally evicting them. After all, they can do it now and they might be inconvenienced by a bit of a fine ....so no penalty in their eyes.

Presenter on the telly said it's like fining a premier footballer for a motoring offence.... they have so much money coming in they don't notice the fine.

CLAPTON

PasturesNew wrote: »

I half saw/heard the man on this morning's news about this.... he was holding back, but pretty adamant and furious that the few rogue landlords that exist are a real blot on the landscape.

They don't care about fines because they've mostly got hundreds of equally bad houses and are raking in £10,000s of rent/week. Water off a duck's back.

He stated instances where people had come home to find somebody else living in their place.

This isn't about landlords who accidentally forget the gas certificate for a week or so, or those who let the loo leak for a year, or those that use last year's AST instead of this year's updated laws one ....it's about landlords whose sole objective is to heap misery upon the heads of those unfortunate enough to have their rights swept aside with a sneer and a threat. Landlords who accumulate swathes of rough/tatty property that they let fall into complete disrepair, while threatening tenants and illegally evicting them. After all, they can do it now and they might be inconvenienced by a bit of a fine ....so no penalty in their eyes.

Presenter on the telly said it's like fining a premier footballer for a motoring offence.... they have so much money coming in they don't notice the fine.

I thought that illegally eviction is an imprisonable offence.

Propertyauthor

Considering councils are far more concerned about parking tickets than they are about enforcing current renting rules and regulations, it's an odd thing for them to call for.

Newham has done an amazing job fighting bad landlords - all with the existing rules and regulations.

Here's a more about what they are doing: http://www.london.gov.uk/moderngov/documents/s45299/05%20Appendix%202.pdf

Thrugelmir

cells wrote: »

What is it that these evil landlords are doing that they deserve to to go to jail for?

Same rules should apply as those that do to Company Directors and Senior Managers. Under HSE for example they are held responsible for their employees. LL's likewise their tenants.

Mistermeaner

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Same rules should apply as those that do to Company Directors and Senior Managers. Under HSE for example they are held responsible for their employees. LL's likewise their tenants.

Totally lost me there; tennant:landlord vs manager:employee is a totally different relationship and what do the hse have to do with landlords?

Generali

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Totally lost me there; tennant:landlord vs manager:employee is a totally different relationship and what do the hse have to do with landlords?

I think that the point is that if you run a company that bodges vehicle maintainance and someone is killed you have a criminal liability. Similarly, if as a LL you bodge a boiler repair and a tenant dies you have a criminal liability.

That seems like a reasonable analogy.