Large overpayment of wages

stevemLS

OP, I would be interested in what your correct salary is?

Does it vary from month to month? Commission etc?

That would have a bearing on whether you should have noticed the overpayment, and on how realistic the £400 proposal is.

If I have read you correctly, you were "briefly" (how long?) seconded to a role that attracted the allowance. The brevity would itself suggest you should have realised?

I can't answer the tax question but the legal position on deductions is that this is one of the few types of deduction that can be made without your consent and not be an unlawful deduction. (s14 Employment Rights Act 1996).

Based on your proposal, it would likely take upwards of 5 years to repay, you would soon lose the willingness to make further one off payments I can guarantee.

I used to deal with recoveries of overpayments occasionally for my employer, by the time they got to me (legal) obviously goodwill had broken down. In some cases, though, (e.g. former employees) we could and did take legal action.

I would certainly not have recommended to my employer that they accept your proposal.

Based on what you say about the tax threshold I am guessing you are on about £40k, if that is the case £400 seems reasonable to me.

stash999

stevemLS wrote: »

OP, I would be interested in what your correct salary is?

Does it vary from month to month? Commission etc?

That would have a bearing on whether you should have noticed the overpayment, and on how realistic the £400 proposal is.

If I have read you correctly, you were "briefly" (how long?) seconded to a role that attracted the allowance. The brevity would itself suggest you should have realised?

I can't answer the tax question but the legal position on deductions is that this is one of the few types of deduction that can be made without your consent and not be an unlawful deduction. (s14 Employment Rights Act 1996).

Based on your proposal, it would likely take upwards of 5 years to repay, you would soon lose the willingness to make further one off payments I can guarantee.

I used to deal with recoveries of overpayments occasionally for my employer, by the time they got to me (legal) obviously goodwill had broken down. In some cases, though, (e.g. former employees) we could and did take legal action.

I would certainly not have recommended to my employer that they accept your proposal.

Based on what you say about the tax threshold I am guessing you are on about £40k, if that is the case £400 seems reasonable to me.

My correct salary varies month to month, for a period I was doing three different roles and the pay was all over the place, they stopped sending me a payslip and used an epay system that didn't work properly but all of this is by the by, whether I should have noticed or not is not the issue, my employers don't care about that nor does any employer in any case I have read they just want the money back (naturally) and seeing as the HR department are truly clueless I just want to know how the tax and NI is dealt with, they look to me to have come up with the gross figure obviously that is not what I have received, any idea's on how that is dealt with ?

w00519772

You need to agree to a repayment plan to pay it all back in my opinion. I am sure if you overpayed someone then you would want it back.

stevemLS

stash999 wrote: »

My correct salary varies month to month, for a period I was doing three different roles and the pay was all over the place, they stopped sending me a payslip and used an epay system that didn't work properly but all of this is by the by, whether I should have noticed or not is not the issue, my employers don't care about that nor does any employer in any case I have read they just want the money back (naturally) and seeing as the HR department are truly clueless I just want to know how the tax and NI is dealt with, they look to me to have come up with the gross figure obviously that is not what I have received, any idea's on how that is dealt with ?

Sorry, already said I can't answer that.

I did, however, attempt to carefully and fully explain in a non-judgemental way your direct question numbered 2.

I'm sorry if you didn't feel my response helpful.

I explained the reason for asking my other questions and whether you "should" have known is relevant to the possible, but rare, defence of estoppel. I am sure your extensive research into case law will have enlightened you on this though.

stash999

w00519772 wrote: »

You need to agree to a repayment plan to pay it all back in my opinion. I am sure if you overpayed someone then you would want it back.

thank you Einstein.

stash999

stevemLS wrote: »

Sorry, already said I can't answer that.

I did, however, attempt to carefully and fully explain in a non-judgemental way your direct question numbered 2.

I'm sorry if you didn't feel my response helpful.

I explained the reason for asking my other questions and whether you "should" have known is relevant to the possible, but rare, defence of estoppel. I am sure your extensive research into case law will have enlightened you on this though.

It has, and "change of position" its not really a road I am looking to go down even though there's half a case, I just don't trust HR anymore to do the job.

comeandgo

The deduction of the overpaid wages should be done on your gross salary before deductions of tax and NI.

stash999

comeandgo wrote: »

The deduction of the overpaid wages should be done on your gross salary before deductions of tax and NI.

so they make the deduction before your taxed on it but then how I am refunded the tax and NI that I have paid on what they are taking back ??

Southend1

If your salary is variable each month why not try for an agreement that they take say £200 every month and 100% of any earnings over x amount until you've paid back what you owe.

Look on the bright side here you have effectively had a big interest free loan from your employer!

engineer_amy

stash999 wrote: »

so they make the deduction before your taxed on it but then how I am refunded the tax and NI that I have paid on what they are taking back ??

If they deduct before tax then you will pay less tax and NI on the remainder.
keeping the figures round to keep it simple.
in a normal month your gross wage is £2400
on this you pay say £300 in tax and £200 in NI
so your net wage is £1900


if you have a pre tax deduction of £400, your new gross becomes £2000. on this you might only pay tax of £220 and NI of £160, net pay £1620
so although you will have paid back the employer £400 of the debt, the reduction in your net figure is only £280.
look at that as your refund of overpaid tax and NI


go onto www.listentotaxman.com and enter various gross figures to get an idea of what the net effect would be on your wage