Is it worth opening case for a self employed nrp

lilyloo17

Hi

I have a child with an ex partner , separated 10 years. When child was younger he paid nothing and so I went through Csa which eventually was paid via a deduction or earnings order for 225 per month. In the end his employer sacked him as an electrician but then very soon after , re employed although in a self employed basis - to avoid the doe I suspect !

Very soon after the Csa struggled to get anything from him and built up 2k arrears , in the end he said he would pay me direct so I closed the Csa cas down as to be honest it was too much hassle. I know what my ex is like and I did know he wouldn't be great with paying direct but I couldn't deal with Csa any longer .

He is on a good wage so 15 percent of income he should pay around 250/300 per month, I agreed to a lower amount 160 as I didn't need 250 and didn't want to be greedy .

Now he did for a little while pay every month , then it got worse and I would only get 80 every few months - at the moment he owes 1300 - I don't expect to get this ever.

Sometimes he will pay 200 after a few months of nothing at all. Sometimes 40 , more frequency zero !
It's getting worse and I'm wondering whether given he is self employed it's worth pursuing via Csa or cms again - can they actually do anything ?
I'm not desperate for the money and when I get the odd bit I take is as a bonus that he has paid something (my daughter absolutely doesn't go without she has everything she needs paid by me regardless)
But on the other hand I feel why should he not be made to contribute towards his child !! Even if I then just use it to put extra into her savings account.
So should i try via Csa or be grateful for odd bits I get every now and then ?
Thanks in advance

DUTR

No harm in approaching the CMS.

lilyloo17

But if I approach them he will definitely not pay my anything at all direct , as he will obviously say he won't pay whilst the claim is sorted (which is fair enough) so is it worth risking my occasional random payments - which are better than nothing - if it turns out the cms have no powers to get anything out of someone who is self employed .
I don't want to spend a year with phone calls and chasing to be told they can't get anything off him, and have then missed out on my odd payments aswell ?

Do they have any realistic chance of enforcing from self employed that don't co operate ?

DUTR

lilyloo17 wrote: »

But if I approach them he will definitely not pay my anything at all direct , as he will obviously say he won't pay whilst the claim is sorted (which is fair enough) so is it worth risking my occasional random payments - which are better than nothing - if it turns out the cms have no powers to get anything out of someone who is self employed .
I don't want to spend a year with phone calls and chasing to be told they can't get anything off him, and have then missed out on my odd payments aswell ?

Do they have any realistic chance of enforcing from self employed that don't co operate ?

As I understand the rules regarding assesment are different under CMS and the SE do not have the same loopholes as previous editions. If you have a case open there is more hope than no case running.

shoe*diva79

I would say its worth opening as the new CMS as they get their figures direct from HMRC so from him it would be his last tax return. No room for him to wriggle out of it.

eve31

Oh there is definitely room for him to wriggle out of it. CMS base the assessment on the latest available tax year from HMRC. He can contest the assessment and say he is earning less, he can suddenly start doing more cash in hand work and bump up his expenses, he can then get it backdated by mandatory reconsideration. He can stop paying and they won't do a thing about it. They will take his word for it that his earnings have dropped by more than 25% if he wants to 'play' it that way.

I closed my case down due to the extreme lengths my ex went to to dodge maintenance and the stress and bad service from CMS. The assessment was pitiful, he was able to pay at the reduced rate as he got his earnings to just over a hundred a week, the initial assessment from previous tax year showed earnings of £600 a week. He contested it from the onset and set about reducing his income for the purposes of child maintenance and got it backdated. They are a joke!

That being said, he is hit and miss with payments anyway, so it may be worth while going through CMS and it may not.

lilyloo17

Thanks for replies - I no u can bend the rules to get the amount he has to pay lowered , I was also concerned that if he is unwilling to pay the cms - they have limited if no powers to enforce payment for self employed !'? I only got it when he was employee through deductions of earnings but they can't do it with self employed - so I'm guessing chances are slim to none and I should stick with his direct 40 quid every none and then as better than nothing !?

DUTR

eve31 wrote: »

Oh there is definitely room for him to wriggle out of it. CMS base the assessment on the latest available tax year from HMRC. He can contest the assessment and say he is earning less, he can suddenly start doing more cash in hand work and bump up his expenses, he can then get it backdated by mandatory reconsideration. He can stop paying and they won't do a thing about it. They will take his word for it that his earnings have dropped by more than 25% if he wants to 'play' it that way.

I closed my case down due to the extreme lengths my ex went to to dodge maintenance and the stress and bad service from CMS. The assessment was pitiful, he was able to pay at the reduced rate as he got his earnings to just over a hundred a week, the initial assessment from previous tax year showed earnings of £600 a week. He contested it from the onset and set about reducing his income for the purposes of child maintenance and got it backdated. They are a joke!

That being said, he is hit and miss with payments anyway, so it may be worth while going through CMS and it may not.

lilyloo17 wrote: »

Thanks for replies - I no u can bend the rules to get the amount he has to pay lowered , I was also concerned that if he is unwilling to pay the cms - they have limited if no powers to enforce payment for self employed !'? I only got it when he was employee through deductions of earnings but they can't do it with self employed - so I'm guessing chances are slim to none and I should stick with his direct 40 quid every none and then as better than nothing !?

So you had a CSA or CMS case previously?
With CMS they go on the most recent tax return, and the assesment is only adjusted if the change is I understand 25% or more.

786

Is it worth asking him to buy clothes, pay for holiday etc? He may be more willing to do this than handing over cash.

MataNui

If he is 'Self employed' then yes it is worth it. They will go on his latest tax return.

If he is trading via a limited company (people often say sole director/traders are self employed) then No, Its not worth it. They can only make an assessment on what he chooses to pay himself by paye (which is likely to be very little).

CMS (like CSA) have no rights to request any company accounts etc or assume any personal benefit from the value of the company. His company could be making a million a year but if he chooses to pay himself only 7k then that all they are able to assess on.

eve31

MataNui wrote: »

If he is 'Self employed' then yes it is worth it. They will go on his latest tax return.

If he is trading via a limited company (people often say sole director/traders are self employed) then No, Its not worth it. They can only make an assessment on what he chooses to pay himself by paye (which is likely to be very little).

CMS (like CSA) have no rights to request any company accounts etc or assume any personal benefit from the value of the company. His company could be making a million a year but if he chooses to pay himself only 7k then that all they are able to assess on.

I think I have read that CMS can take into account taxable benefits from the P11D form, as tax is paid on fuel and car benefits from a limited company, this is classed as part of salary too.

In addition if a sole director of ltd company pays themselves via dividend from the company this is taken into account in assessment only through a variation - it is classed as unearned income and paid after corporation tax has been paid on company profits. There are so many ways around it though, employ family member/partner as co director and pay it to them instead. Paying a partner a salary as company secretary.

I have family members who are self employed, and they work in construction on big jobs, they declare their earnings and pay tax accordingly but it is much easier to work cash in hand when working for people and not big companies, no paper trail. So it depends what type of customer a self employed person works for in how easy it is to not declare earnings.