New Solar system 4kw

1animal1

Hi, I have been lurking here for a few months and have since decided to embark on a few quotations for a 4kw system. Just wondering if you can provide some expert advice

We have just moved into a new house at the end of July and so haven't really any basis for savings except for the old bills. Since moving I have changed to LED's, insulated the loft/hatches/garage and fitted radiator foils amongst other things. My next thing is to address the solar before the FIT reduces. Two problems currently exist, we are in a mock tudor 1986 build 4 bed which the misus says will be spoilt by the panels - I agree but the savings to be had are too big to ignore. So with this in mind I have to look at the more expensive less efficient black panels - which should tie nicely with the black roof tiles. The second issue is a close 'wood' behind the house with some fairly tall oak trees providing some medium level unwanted shading. So after 2 quotes I am looking at 12 panels on the front (3kw) facing west with no shading and 4 further panels on the back (1kw) with shading.

I have had 2 quotes so far, first quote came in at £6200 plus £300 for an iboost (which i feel i could fit myself easily for less...), the chap said that this was a single inverter with no optimisers or similar micro inverters. The 2nd quote came from a local firm but for only 3kw system using black panels with optimisers for £5400 - they want £350 for an iboost which sets alarm bells ringing as they are clearly piling on the profit on a system that i could buy and fit for £235 off amazon! They are due to leave me a further quote for the 4kw system suggesting i'd need another £250 for rear scaffold to fit the 4 extra panels over my ridge, plus the panel costs. I'll update as info comes in.

I queried the need for optimisers and the advice I'd seen on here regards ongoing servicing and the need for me to pay for scaffold should a warrant y issue arise - their response was that they would send people to replace the unit which the manufacturer would pay for entirely - and that they would change it using harnesses (recently changed one for £104 paid for by the warranty allegedly). Yet in the next breath wanted an extra £250 for scaffold on the other side of the house when the panels are only just over the ridge. I'm confused! is the scaffold H&S or not???

I feel that after reading through many posts on here that i should be closer to £5k given the extra work involved and possible need for micros or optimisers.

Further info - the house is east to west facing with the sun coming up behind the trees to the east. Reasonably high ground... The other dilemma is that i need to cover the cost of a loan to cover the panels (until we can afford to clear it - wedding problems!) of which the FIT rate must cover the monthly costs to a large degree - to get it past the misus. We have a system boiler to benefit from the iboost and fully intend a program using the dishwasher/washer in the daytime to make the most of the solar - however it'll come into to its own when we decide to have kids in the next 2/3 years. Located in Sheffield if anyone has any company recommendations.

Any help would be really appreciated

Thanks for reading

Tim

1animal1

Latest quote from the local firm for a 4kw on two pitches. 16x ja solar all black panels, 1x solar edge converter, 16x p300 optimisers and a new garage consumer 4000tl 16 amp given that I've no spare points. £6950

tunnel

1animal1 wrote: »

Latest quote from the local firm for a 4kw on two pitches. 16x ja solar all black panels, 1x solar edge converter, 16x p300 optimisers and a new garage consumer 4000tl 16 amp given that I've no spare points. £6950

I believe the price is too high, a standard 4kWp system should come in around the £5k mark(or less), add in solaredge and a bit of extra scaffolding(2 aspects) maybe £5500. A consumer unit is only £1/200 of which I'd expect it thrown in with the deal
Why not post your rough location so others could give you a recommendation for an installer who won't walk away wearing a three pointed hat and carrying a pistol!!

pigglypots

Just my input...I managed to get a quote for a 4KW system - 16 x 250W panels, split over 2 roofs including Solaredge optimisers/inverter for about £5000...it should be possible - where are you located?

1animal1

This is what I thought regards the price, it has gone up over £1500 for four extra panels including, by their own admission £250 for the scaffold.

The consumer unit I can easily do myself off the record. I can use my blagged trade discount and pick a plastic (soon to be extinct) plastic unit up and fit that. I could get them to utilise the outside light channel for now to remove that element of the cost.

Have you guys any recommendations of firm's worth contacting for further quotes?


Time to get some more quotes. I'm on the outskirts of Sheffield

tunnel

You'd be surprised how many people get "minty" quotes and post them on these forums. Once those people then gleen a bit of knowledge from here those prices suddenly start reducing.....drastically.....amazing.

1animal1

What do you think is the way forward tunnel? I've read a good few posts from the last few months and noticed the increasingly different brands used, I've also researched from that link you've posted a few times with the wholesale pricing to get a better idea. What confuses me is the sheer scale of the options available. It's very difficult but I'm willing to learn.

From the last quote they were telling me the edge panels were better especially during and after clouds passing, as once the shadow from the cloud casts then it takes a while to get full power back. Also they mentioned the tolerances of +/- 5% from factory and that in a string, the panels will all operates under the lowest tolerance. Can you pull any of that apart?

gazapc

1animal1 wrote: »

From the last quote they were telling me the edge panels were better especially during and after clouds passing, as once the shadow from the cloud casts then it takes a while to get full power back. Also they mentioned the tolerances of +/- 5% from factory and that in a string, the panels will all operates under the lowest tolerance. Can you pull any of that apart?

Panels will have an instant response to cloud/no cloud. The inverter may have some lag tracking the MPP.

Most panels are now 'positive tolerance' so sold as say 250 +3% -0%. They are tested at the factory and sold only as 250 if they are equal to or upto 3% over. You can see the exact figures on the panel datasheet. In this case you can only gain (although may not be the case with some smaller manufacturers).

tunnel

1animal1 wrote: »

What confuses me is the sheer scale of the options available. It's very difficult but I'm willing to learn.

Don't be daunted by it, there's literarily 10's if not 100's of different panels and inverters, yet most people end up picking from a small group of them, mainly because the installer is getting a good deal on them or they're just mass produced to the point of not being ignored
Could you not get a couple more panels on the east aspect to even the generation curve out, with shade management I don't think you'd lose to much generation(depending how bad the shade is)
You could try 8 x seraphim 285Wp panels on the west roof and 6 x seraphim 285Wp panels on the east with solaredge/micros giving a 3.99kWp system size.

Martyn1981

1animal1 wrote: »

Two problems currently exist, we are in a mock tudor 1986 build 4 bed which the misus says will be spoilt by the panels - I agree but the savings to be had are too big to ignore. So with this in mind I have to look at the more expensive less efficient black panels - which should tie nicely with the black roof tiles. The second issue is a close 'wood' behind the house with some fairly tall oak trees providing some medium level unwanted shading. So after 2 quotes I am looking at 12 panels on the front (3kw) facing west with no shading and 4 further panels on the back (1kw) with shading.

Tim

Hiya Tim. You've got loads of great advice already, so just a few minor issues.

Firstly, you say "more expensive less efficient black panels". The cost of BoBs (black on black) isn't really much more these days, and I think the extra cost is worthwhile if you want them to blend better with a black roof. Wifey had no concerns over our back systems (ESE) but put her foot down regarding the front (WNW) till she saw the BoBs. She was happy to have, what she called 'stealth panels' installed.

Not sure what you mean by less efficient. A 250Wp panel is a 250Wp panel, so the efficiency will be the same (if the panel is the same size). The only possible issue is that BoB may heat up more in sunlight (black car v's white car?) and as panels lose some efficiency as they get hotter this may influence generation, but my system is performing above target, so haven't noticed an issue. Also, as neither system will be sitting in direct sunlight all day, it will probably have slightly less effect.

Regarding SolarEdge, again, the WNW has that, it does exactly what it says on the tin. I was hoping to get 80-90% of target generation with the help of the SE kit as there is a lot of shading, but have actually been seeing 100%+ so very pleased with it. I doubt the panel matching benefits etc are worth it, if you didn't have shading issues, but if you can justify SE kit, then yes it will help to optimise all the small panel issues too.

1animal1 wrote: »

The other dilemma is that i need to cover the cost of a loan to cover the panels (until we can afford to clear it - wedding problems!) of which the FIT rate must cover the monthly costs to a large degree - to get it past the misus.

Looking at PVGIS and Sheffield with 4kWp of panels E/W then looks like you'll be getting around 2,900kWh of generation. That will earn/save you about £570 pa. With a loan you probably need to aim for closer to £5k, but have a price cap of £6k.

Make sure that you have at least 6 months of loan payments spare. From install, to registering, to getting the contract completed, waiting for the next claim period, and receiving the first FiT could be 6 months (hopefully less), after which it should settle down into a 3 month cycle. Also remember that if you install in September, your first 6 months of generation will be the lowest 6 months. My E/W system generates 2/3 in the five months Apr to Aug and 1/3 in the seven months Sept to Mch.

Sorry for labouring this point, but if the £570(ish) works out over a year against your loan payments, then fine, but just make sure you are ok during the initial 6 month period.

BTW, hello, and welcome to the boards and to the PV madhouse.

Mart.

pinnks

This might win over the wife or kill your project dead but here are my black panels on the front of a non-Tudor 1980s house...
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14870257/IMG_3095.JPG