Is frugal the new normal?

armyknife

MrsLurcherwalker wrote: »

Darned good idea and it works! what's not to like?

Yes, I noticed most of the mini ovens sold nowadays don't have the element around the outside of the oven enclosure, but just have the bare element within the oven at the bottom.
So I figured if I turned it upside down and used the still working grill element, I could get an idea how the modern ones handle as ovens before I bought one.

Turns out it's ok as long as you watch for burning bottoms, just a case of turning it on and off for X minutes depending on what you're cooking. Plus this large old one, is much better insulated that most modern flimsy ones.

Lynplatinum

Evening all

the title of the thread is 'Is Frugal the New Normal'

Well we have talked about - what does 'frugal' mean and if it is the new normal.

It is a shame Mr S chose to be somewhat abrupt. I hope it was unintentional - we all make mistakes. even me

Not all businesses have to be huge/pay for advertising/pay for sales reps/ pay for premises/ pay for shipping/customs. According to the Federation of Small Businesses
'Small firms accounted for 99.3 per cent of all private sector businesses in the UK, 47.8 per cent of private sector employment and 33.2 per cent of private sector turnover' which even if Mr F's throwaway comment was to become a business would seem to support my contention. Both my Plumber and my Electrician do not advertise, are at industry standard, and have been in business for themselves for over 30 years!

Nargleblast - he he he - 50 shades of frugal!! That a) is funny and b) sums up my opinion - we are each 'frugal' in our own way and by so being it gives us the option to spend on what we consider important (holidays/cars/clothes/meals out/books) and we give each other help, support, and tips on what works for us as a person and with our circumstances!!

I think that the above attitude is part of Martin's :money: idea that there should be sufficient financial education in schools so that all folk can make such decisions for themselves as adults.

Now as a teacher of children excluded from school, I am well aware that there is little time in the curriculum for any more stuff, but, for example, I include how cumulative interest works as part of maths (%ages) for the GCSE age children. The puzzle goes - If I borrow £100 in January @ 25% interest but do not pay any of it off - how much will i owe in January the next year! The result horrifies them and makes them think twice about store and credit cards!

Do folk agree that being 'frugal'/ 'careful with money' / 'aware of how we spend our money' should/could be part of education?? (if it could be worked in with maths/healthy eating in biology)????

notjustlaura

MrsLurcherwalker wrote: »

... I also visited B&M when I was with DD1 and got some tins of mushy peas, tins of corned beef, tins of coconut milk and very nicely reduced Pataks Pickles of various kinds to pop into the store so it's beginning to feel cooler out there and I kind of like that it's going to be autumn weather, very foggy this morning while we were driving home and lovely coloured leaves on all the trees beside the motorway. Time to dig out the warmer blankets soon methinks!!!

I rather like the turn of seasons because they bring a subtle change in routine and the feel of the air around me. And, although I hate the wet and cold of winter (don't get me started on how much I hate it when the pavements are slippery!) I like the feel of autumn as I lay in stores and prep to stay snug and well fed over the winter.

[Deleted User]

Lynn I think all children should be taught the value of cash and how to manage it. One of my DGS Henry is really rather good at it.Since he started his paper round (7 days a week he is up at 6.00.a.m.) he has so far used his cash for his holiday spends in August and now has £41.00 saved up for the football game which comes out tomorrow for his computer game system.

Once that has been bought his next objective is to save for a new bike as his old one is past repairing and is about two sizes too small for even Henry to ride .I have promised him if he manages to save half of the price I will match him for the rest.
He has found the one he wants online and its reduced to almost half its original price :):)

He is a canny lad for 14.Of his £17.00 per week that he earns he saves £14.00 and has the rest for 'Happy Cash' to treat himself if he feels like it .So he has got the right ideas in that you can save and enjoy a treat now and again (I wonder where he got that from :):))


His next brother up 'Gentle Jack will spend all his cash in one splurge but is never bothered once its gone :):).

His next brother down Mikey at 11 just thinks "mmmm chocolate Oreos' as many 11 year old boys do :):)so he too never has much cash.Three little boys all with different ideas about money.

Their eldest brother Ben is at Uni so never has any cash to speak of anyway as he is in permanent penury :):).

But teaching children about how to manage money to me is as important as those children will grow up into adults like the rest of us who either blow the lot and not worry or manage it and prosper.Its finding the right balance for each separate person I think.

But money management along with cooking is as important for youngsters today as they will be tomorrows parents

GreyQueen

I've often thought if I could design a school curriculum, I would include a module on personal administration and financial management, as so much grief could be avoided if these things were better handled. Well done Lynplatinum, for her example to her pupils. If you save one of them from getting into debt in adulthood, you will have achieved something very worthwhile. And hopefully a lot more than one will remember what you said, and choose wisely.

I guess our culture has been in a 40 year spendathon, where frugality has seemed quaint and rather ridiculous to the majority. The polar oppostite of the situation which has pertained for the majority of human history, and which will be the norm in the not-to-distant future. So frugality is going to be the new normal, whatever some people might think.

I was raised in the sixties and seventies by parents who were frugal of necessity. Like the majority of the working class of their childhood era, if you were wasteful or careless, there were very serious consequences - such as being cold, hungry and even destitute. Being thrifty with what little you had was a survival skill, every bit as real as rubbing two sticks together. People found value and self-respect in being able to make something out of next-to-nothing, whether that was the woman as homemaker or the man keeping them fed from the veggie patch.

I think of my Grandma, raising fowls of various species at home, for eggs and meat, of her walking the lanes 'sticking' (gathering firewood in an old pram), of my other Grandad in the 1940s carving a cradle for Auntie's rag doll and an aeroplane for my Dad, because there was no money to buy the children any toys.

Those values stuck and I feel physically ill when I see terrible wastefulness, such as the good stuff being dropped 10 ft over the bays at the tip and ruined, or households who put what was decent-ish and definately repurposable things outside and leave them out in the weather to spoil. It's as crazy to my world-view as incinerating banknotes!

I also hate wastefulness from the environmental pov.

I'm perfectly happy to buy 90% of my clothing secondhand and about 80% of everything else I own. I choose to buy my appliances new, and pay a premium for energy efficiency. My reasoning is that, in places I have access to, a secondhand fridge costs about £80 and has a 3 month warranty. It could be good for years, or it could be good more less than one year, in which case I've wasted £80. So, I kept an ailing fridge going for another 2 years and put my money into a superb Miele larder fridge, which I hope to get about £15 years' (or more) use from. Given the quality of the brand, sources say 15-20 years is feasible.

When making capital expenditures on appliances, I tend to think in costs per year of ownership, which often bring what seems like an expensive choice down into the modest or even cheap range. But it requires having enough money put aside to spend more up front. Spaving, in other words. I save to spave.:rotfl:

My household consistantly uses 2.5-3 kWH of electricity per 24 hours, which is an A++ fridge and an A+ small freezer running 24/7/365, a desktop PC running several hours a day (I turn the monitor off if going away from the screen for more than a minute) and a washer, new this year, running 2-3 times a week.

Overall, I believe I am correct in saying that those appliances which run constantly, such as boilers, fridges and freezers, are the ones where one should prioritise replacement with a view to energy efficiency. Other items such as cars, washers and non-constantly used appliances have had most of their lifetimes' energy usage embodied in the raw materials, manufacturing and initial transportation costs.

Of course, the most energy efficient way to use something is to limit the use of it, if possible. I know able-bodied people who will take a car to visit a papershop 5 mins' walk away, which strikes me as a very bizarre thing to do.

:T MrsLW, what a fantastic acquistion of the woodpile from your friends who are moving. And I will be making beetroot preserves from your recipe in the next few weeks, how quickly the twelve months turn, hey?

thriftwizard

Would it be very cynical of me to suggest that the PTB have vested interests in people NOT being able to manage their money, so we're unlikely to see personal finance taking its rightful place on the curriculum? As I understand it, the way our system currently works is that money doesn't actually exist until it's loaned into existence, and that personal/household debt is actually a significant element of this, so if people stop borrowing money they haven't got for things they don't really need, our economy will be the poorer for it.

GreyQueen

I've long believed they do, thriftwizard.

People who don't get into debt are a nuisance to the money-wranglers. I am one of those inconsiderate types.

About 15 years ago, I was very ill and not able to work, and dependant on welfare benefits. I was making a slow trip down a main street in the city and was collared by a promotional person from one of the then Big Four banks, who was trying to get me to take out a credit card.

I blinked at her in bemusement. But I don't have a job. I'm on benefits. I said.

That isn't a problem! she cried gaily, extending the credit card application form.

It is to me! I retorted, and walked off.

:mad: Makes my blood run cold to think of how much trouble such debt-pushers can get people into.

fuddle

thriftwizard wrote: »

Would it be very cynical of me to suggest that the PTB have vested interests in people NOT being able to manage their money, so we're unlikely to see personal finance taking its rightful place on the curriculum? As I understand it, the way our system currently works is that money doesn't actually exist until it's loaned into existence, and that personal/household debt is actually a significant element of this, so if people stop borrowing money they haven't got for things they don't really need, our economy will be the poorer for it.

I hold the same thoughts thriftwizard and that is why I believe it is down to me as a parent to teach my children about money. I didn't go under with debt because I wasn't taught about it at school. I went under because I was brought up in an environment where all elders cared what other people thought so had to have the best. Heck, even my grandma (a miner's wife and housewife who I look up to) would brag that they were the first in the street to get a television. Trying to live up to those ideals and being seen to have in order to be seen to be succeeding as a young adult took it's toll. Marry someone who had the same experiences and was living the same way, then as a family it's only going to end in disaster.

School could never have helped us get a grip on an upbringing like that.

DH and I have come a long way but only because we have experienced it and worked for it and now I hope that what my kiddies are experiencing now, as a result, is the stuff that is going to stay close to them. Frugal is pretty much their normal and hopefully they will carry it though regardless of whether they have input from educators.

I'm not bashing the idea that money sense and how to conduct affairs shouldn't be in the curriculum because I do think it should, very much so. I just feel that without positive parenting in the area it could possibly be lost. Nature V Nurture.

thriftwizard

I'm not bashing the idea that money sense and how to conduct affairs shouldn't be in the curriculum because I do think it should, very much so. I just feel that without positive parenting in the area it could possibly be lost. Nature V Nurture.

Totally agree! I was utterly horrified some years ago when the middle school 4 of our kids were at attempted to introduce "identity cards" - this was in a school of a mere 400 pupils, so hardly a necessity in order for for the staff to have any idea who they were teaching. The cards were issued by and the scheme administered by a third party company, and included "reward" points for spending on such academic necessities as iPods & phones, computer games & cosmetics; there was a promise that your track record with these reward points added up towards your first adult credit card - the more you spent, the more credit-worthy you'd be come uni-time. They actually took our kids' photos for these "ID" cards without our permission.

I wrote several stiff letters and marched up to the school, utterly incensed. The head almost laughed in my face - as far as they were concerned, it was a "fun" way to learn about personal finance! Never mind the identity data, and the total wrong-headedness of the idea that the more you spend, the more you get... but I can't have been the only one to complain, because the scheme was quietly withdrawn a few months later. Cue a lot of parents moaning that they'd spent all this money on treats, expecting to boost their child's eventual spending power... aaaaargh!

fuddle

What! Er, is that the Middle School in town?