Solar Subsidy to be cut by 90% in January

michaels

Don't the new hydro connectors from Norway and possibly Iceland work really well with intermittent sources like wind and solar?

zeupater

michaels wrote: »

Don't the new hydro connectors from Norway and possibly Iceland work really well with intermittent sources like wind and solar?

Hi

Pumped hydro compliments solar and wind generation sources extremely well, however, there's an unavoidable issue of 'head' vs 'volume'. There are a very limited number of sites throughout the UK which have the ability to host a significant volume of 'high head' (difference between the high and low storage levels) generation. As the differential in storage levels decreases the desired pressure and potential energy through acceleration falls dramatically ... the only solution is to increase the flow rate, which means increasing the storage volume of the complete system probably to a scale somewhere around that of the Elan valley complex .... that's where the NIMBYs start to get upset, bringing negativity to the table and little else ...

Norway has an almost ideal geographical advantage having an abundance of sites suitable to host both high-head pumped storage systems and high head flow systems and the technology fit between solar+wind at one end of an interconnect with pumped storage at the other is pretty ideal ... however, the currently planned interconnector is only rated carry 1.4GW and is ~450miles long - as such it's only really designed to smooth/balance a difference in peak demands mainly resulting from time-zone and working pattern differences between the two countries, similar to the cross channel interconnectors ...

Interconnectors are great, however the only effective solution to support intermittent renewables generation is to have a strategic position on UK storage. As such it's down to governments to set a policy framework and provide support to major projects as necessary, however, that's the same governments comprised of locally elected individuals who are intent on protecting both their own seats and their collective majority ....

HTH
Z

Cardew

For those who have not read, or heard about, George Monbiot this is what he wrote in March 2010.

Form your own opinion!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/mar/01/solar-panel-feed-in-tariff

The article finishes:

If people want to waste their money, let them. But you and I shouldn't be paying for it. Seldom has there been a bigger public rip-off; seldom has less fuss been made about it. Will we try to stop this scheme, or are we a nation of dupes?

It has taken over 5 years, but at last it seems common sense will prevail.

Martyn1981

Cardew wrote: »

For those who have not read, or heard about, George Monbiot this is what he wrote in March 2010.

Form your own opinion!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/mar/01/solar-panel-feed-in-tariff

For those truly interested, and to save me time pointing out the vast number of errors in the article (yet again), and the blatant untruths, such as claiming the entire budget of £8.6bn would be paid solely be the poor element of the domestic sector, or the false claim that Germany was turning it's back on PV, I'll simply supply a link to a web page that contains a whole host of responses from people in all areas and interests:

Growing Backlash to Monbiot Attack on Solar PV

It's such a shame that an article that was so badly wrong when it was written, is still being referred to.

Mart.

Martyn1981

zeupater wrote: »

Norway has an almost ideal geographical advantage having an abundance of sites suitable to host both high-head pumped storage systems and high head flow systems and the technology fit between solar+wind at one end of an interconnect with pumped storage at the other is pretty ideal

Whilst the issue of increasing Norway's pumped storage capacity apparently comes up regularly (in Norway), it's still a very interesting issue, as per this recent article:

Norway Could Provide 20GW of Energy Storage to Europe

Assuming varying demand and generation around western Europe, 20GW would be a substantial amount of supply to help out different countries at different times. Assuming of course we have adequate interconnectors. Combining interconnectors with pumped storage in particular also opens up a potential UK storage route, for excess intermittent generation.

Edit: Old(ish) news, but may be of interest:

UK eyes five new interconnectors in bid to boost energy security

Mart.

zeupater

Cardew wrote: »

For those who have not read, or heard about, George Monbiot this is what he wrote in March 2010.

Form your own opinion!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/mar/01/solar-panel-feed-in-tariff

The article finishes:


It has taken over 5 years, but at last it seems common sense will prevail.

Hi

Geocentrism, flat earth, luddites & throwing clogs immediately come to mind .... add in a 2010 article by Monsieur Monblot which received much contemporary discredit at the time & hasn't stood the test of (a very short) history too well, and it's getting close to having been dealt a full house ...

Nettles & straw sir, nettles & straw ..... It has only taken 5 years and common sense has certainly prevailed, despite the regular interventions of the 'sabot chuckers' ... :cool:

Z

Cardew

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

. add in a 2010 article by Monsieur Monblot which received much contemporary discredit at the time
Z

An attack by the solar industry is hardly contemporary discredit! To slightly misquote Mandy Rice-Davies 'They would say that wouldn't they'.


Anyway new posters read the article and form your own opinions.


The thrust of the article was true then and is true now; and the hopefully impending demise of solar FIT for new installations should be welcomed.

KevinG

From the Monbiot article:

Though there's a system to ensure functioning devices are installed, it can't be long before thousands of petty criminals discover the perfect carousel fraud, bypassing their solar panels by connecting the incoming wire to the outgoing wire. By buying electricity for 7p and selling it for 44p (if you sell power to the grid rather than using it yourself, you get an extra 3p), they'll make a 600% profit.

Is there any evidence that this ever happened?

Martyn1981

KevinG wrote: »

From the Monbiot article:

Is there any evidence that this ever happened?

Quite the contrary actually, as several PV'ers on MSE (and elsewhere) have reported being asked to supply a photo of their TGM when reporting higher than average quarterly figures. I myself was asked manually about a rather low winter figure for my WNW system.

The companies can simply estimate generation figures and query any that fall outside of a reasonable margin, especially as PV generation seems to be boringly predictable. Also remember that by trying to falsify a single claim, you could place at risk the other 79 to 99 claims.

Mart.

Martyn1981

As we've mentioned GM's views on PV in 2010 (when he was also promoting nuclear), I thought it would be fun to look at his views on nuclear generation when he became aware of the price for new nuclear:

The farce of the Hinkley C nuclear reactor will haunt Britain for decades

Nils Pratley warned in the Guardian last week that "if Hinkley Point's entire output is tied to the rate of inflation for 40 years, we could be staring at a truly astronomical cost by the end of the contract." The City analyst he consulted reassured him that "the government surely can't be that dumb". Oh yes? Payment to the operators, the government now tells us, will be "fully indexed to the consumer prices index". Guaranteed income for corporations, risk assumed by the taxpayer: this deal looks as bad as any private finance initiative contract.

That's not the only respect in which the price is too high. A fundamental principle of all development is that we should know how the story ends. In this case no one has the faintest idea. Cumbria – the only local authority which seemed prepared to accept a dump for the nuclear waste from past and future schemes – rejected the proposal in January. No one should commission a mess without a plan for clearing it up.

But this, above all, is a wasted opportunity. By the time a European pressurised reactor at Hinkley Point is halfway through its operating life, it will look about as hip as a traction engine.

Mart.