Paying back course fees to an employer

easty

I work at a university, in finance, and my boss needed/wanted someone in my department to be Procurement trained. It's a small department, I was asked to do it, and I accepted. I was signed up and registered to do the course in Nov 2013. Then, in May 2014, my boss left a contract on my desk and asked that I sign it. The contract basically said that I'd have to pay the course fee (£500) back if I left the department. I know I could have refused to sign it, but, though I wasn't pressured, I kind of felt like I had to sign it, so I did.

I left the department at the end of July, and moved to another department in the university. My old boss is now asking I pay the fees back.

Is it unreasonable of me to refuse to pay back course fees?

The way I see it -

I was asked to do the course, I didn't go cap in hand asking for money to go be trained in something I was actually interested in.

Nobody mentioned paying it back when I signed up, I'm not saying I wouldn't have done it, but I would have had to think about it.

If it was a course that I was going to use in my new job, I'd perhaps feel morally obliged to pay it back. But, it's not something that make use of in my new position, nor is it something I want to do in the future.

I understand that some people might say - it costs more than just the course registration fee to train staff, and I accept/appreciate that, but in this instance, it hasn't cost my previous department anything but the reg fee. I wasn't even allowed to take any time out of my own work to study or write up (I asked and was refused). It was all to be done on my own time. Any actual training was given by the universities Procurement department, not by the department I was working for. The only outlay the department had, was the £500 reg fee.

sangie595

easty wrote: »

I work at a university, in finance, and my boss needed/wanted someone in my department to be Procurement trained. It's a small department, I was asked to do it, and I accepted. I was signed up and registered to do the course in Nov 2013. Then, in May 2014, my boss left a contract on my desk and asked that I sign it. The contract basically said that I'd have to pay the course fee (£500) back if I left the department. I know I could have refused to sign it, but, though I wasn't pressured, I kind of felt like I had to sign it, so I did.

I left the department at the end of July, and moved to another department in the university. My old boss is now asking I pay the fees back.

Is it unreasonable of me to refuse to pay back course fees?

The way I see it -

I was asked to do the course, I didn't go cap in hand asking for money to go be trained in something I was actually interested in.

Nobody mentioned paying it back when I signed up, I'm not saying I wouldn't have done it, but I would have had to think about it.

If it was a course that I was going to use in my new job, I'd perhaps feel morally obliged to pay it back. But, it's not something that make use of in my new position, nor is it something I want to do in the future.

I understand that some people might say - it costs more than just the course registration fee to train staff, and I accept/appreciate that, but in this instance, it hasn't cost my previous department anything but the reg fee. I wasn't even allowed to take any time out of my own work to study or write up (I asked and was refused). It was all to be done on my own time. Any actual training was given by the universities Procurement department, not by the department I was working for. The only outlay the department had, was the £500 reg fee.

Based on what you are saying here. it would be exceptionally unusual for a department or section of a single employer to demand the repayment of course fees. It seems to me that the better approach to this is that you have not left the employer and therefore there is nothing to discuss - those skills are still available to the employer. That is stronger than arguing over what the costs comprise, or whether you wanted to sign it or wanted to go on the course. They fact is you did sign it, and you did do the course. And the employer is still capable of benefitting fromt the money they invested in you. If the manager doesn't accept this then you will probabaly need to submit a grievance and escalate it outside the department. If you are in a union, now would be a good time to talk to them.

Savvy_Sue

How has your boss asked for this? Because if it's anything other than a formal request from HR or notification that this will be deducted from your salary, I'd start by talking to HR: "as you know I did this course at Fred's request when I worked in the Widget dept. Now I've moved to the Wodget office, and Fred is asking me to repay the £500 fee. Is this right?"

patman99

The critical question here is 'did he present you with the new contract before or after you started the training' ?.

If before, then you had the option to drop out of the training, or do the course and pay back the fees if you left within a time limit.

If after, then I doubt they would be able to enforce it as in English Contract Law a contract cannot be applied retrospectively.

sharpe106

It is reasonable if you left the company to pay it back but if just moved department sounds daft have you spoken to your new boss about this? or like previously said HR.

Plus also why did you move departments as if they moved you they are punishing you for something that is out of your control

DandelionPatrol

easty wrote: »

I work at a university, in finance, and my boss needed/wanted someone in my department to be Procurement trained. It's a small department, I was asked to do it, and I accepted. I was signed up and registered to do the course in Nov 2013. Then, in May 2014, my boss left a contract on my desk and asked that I sign it. The contract basically said that I'd have to pay the course fee (£500) back if I left the department. I know I could have refused to sign it, but, though I wasn't pressured, I kind of felt like I had to sign it, so I did.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

You signed in order not to rock the boat - now look where that has taken you!!! A lesson not to sign something you are not happy with to avoid rocking the boat.
You could have refused the course because of the payback clause and if the boss really felt it was needed you would have been sent anyway.

I fear to say that if you signed for paying back if you left the department, it may be legally enforceable. Your best hope is the union - if you are in it - another lesson. A union should have given you the backing not to sign in the first place.

FBaby

This is tricky as the legality of it is not totally clear but realistically, I don't think you would want your have to battle your current employer in court.

I would contact HR, say that you appreciate the rules, but that ultimately, you are still working for the University and therefore still in a position to provide the expertise to them that you've gained from the course. Maybe you can suggest that as a compromise, you would be happy for the procurement department to contact you at anytime for advice relating to the knowledge you've gained from the course?

mariefab

If the course fee was paid and the training was completed before May 14 your employer has no right to receive the payment. See Employment Rights Act 1996 s.15(1)(b) & (4) below.


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/section/15

custardy

Does that contract mean if you worked till retirement in that department,you would have had to pay back £500 when you left?
Asking for payment towards a course if you left the company/institution is one thing. I think (as said) across depts is crazy.

patman99

The main thing is 'when did the course begin?'.
You say you signed-up for the course in November 2013, and your boss dropped the new contract on your desk in May 2014.

If the course started between these dates, they would not be in any position to reclaim the fees as the new contract cannot be applied retrospectively.