Corbynomics: A Dystopia

ukcarper

gadgetmind wrote: »

Really? No matter how little you're prepared to use the old grey matter, you're entitled? No matter how little you're prepared to break into a sweat, you' entitled?

Is it any wonder we have so many unskilled people yet so many who feel entitled?

Yes I know you find it hard to comprehend but if people are prepared to work they should be entitled to reasonable accomadation. I'm not saying they should be able to own it or it should be luxurious.

gadgetmind

ukcarper wrote: »

entitled to reasonable accomadation

Your spelling of that word continues to make my eyes bleed but let's move on.

"Reasonable" is an interesting word. Throw it into a contract and it means "if the parties can't decide, the courts will decide". What do you mean by the word in this context?

Oh, regards "entitled", I think that people are entitled to the rule of law, entitled to an education, entitled to choose their own path in life, and entitled to health care. In extreme cases, where it all goes wrong, they are also entitled to a safety net regards food and shelter, but only to get them back on their feet.

You clearly think this entitlement goes *way* beyond this. Please explain.

ukcarper

gadgetmind wrote: »

Your spelling of that word continues to make my eyes bleed but let's move on.

"Reasonable" is an interesting word. Throw it into a contract and it means "if the parties can't decide, the courts will decide". What do you mean by the word in this context?

Oh, regards "entitled", I think that people are entitled to the rule of law, entitled to an education, entitled to choose their own path in life, and entitled to health care. In extreme cases, where it all goes wrong, they are also entitled to a safety net regards food and shelter, but only to get them back on their feet.

You clearly think this entitlement goes *way* beyond this. Please explain.

Not much more but I would include accommodation. I think the fact that you feel it's OK for the low paid not to have reasonable accommodation says a lot about you. I have a nice home but I don't expect low paid people to live in dormitories.

If the biggest thing you have to worry about is someone's spelling tough

TrickyTree83

ukcarper wrote: »

Not much more but I would include accommodation. I think the fact that you feel it's OK for the low paid not to have reasonable accommodation says a lot about you. I have a nice home but I don't expect low paid people to live in dormitories.

If the biggest thing you have to worry about is someone's spelling tough

A roof over your head is a roof over your head, and they ought to be of a minimum standard.

However it should be a means to an end to give people a footing with which they can get a job and get back into the private rental sector then great. But providing a roof over their head for life - no, no, no, no, no... no. That should not be the aim of the welfare state unless they are sick, disabled, single mothers? Not sure about the single mum issue, the incentive to create babies at a super young age needs to be addressed. Those who can - should. This culture of entitlement must stop and everyone would be better off. There would be more money in the coffers for infrastructure projects, which creates jobs and sparks economic growth.

ukcarper

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

A roof over your head is a roof over your head, and they ought to be of a minimum standard.

However it should be a means to an end to give people a footing with which they can get a job and get back into the private rental sector then great. But providing a roof over their head for life - no, no, no, no, no... no. That should not be the aim of the welfare state unless they are sick or disabled. Those who can - should. This culture of entitlement must stop and everyone would be better off. There would be more money in the coffers for infrastructure projects, which creates jobs and sparks economic growth.

I'm not convinced you read my posts before commenting, I said if you work in a low paid job.

I'm not so sure the single mum is a big problem although in undoubtedly does exist but o do think allowances paid foe extra children in the shape of tax credits and housing benefit are excessive and should be limited.

TrickyTree83

ukcarper wrote: »

I'm not convinced you read my posts before commenting, I said if you work in a low paid job.

I'm not so sure the single mum is a big problem although in undoubtedly does exist but o do think allowances paid foe extra children in the shape of tax credits and housing benefit are excessive and should be limited.

Well that's why we should address the low pay issue. People living in locations with high living costs either shouldn't be living in those areas or should be commuting in to do work for a higher wage that they get now.

The single mum issue... I'd be torn. On the one hand how can you not provide, on the other it's creating an incentive to have kids at a young age. There doesn't appear to be a 'good' way of removing that incentive and still supplying the safety net.

ukcarper

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Well that's why we should address the low pay issue. People living in locations with high living costs either shouldn't be living in those areas or should be commuting in to do work for a higher wage that they get now.

The single mum issue... I'd be torn. On the one hand how can you not provide, on the other it's creating an incentive to have kids at a young age. There doesn't appear to be a 'good' way of removing that incentive and still supplying the safety net.

I'd agree it's difficult but the present system does seem to incentivise people to have more children. If you are a home owner and you want more children you have to find the extra money or the kids have to share if you are on benefits they are increased to fund extra room.

ruggedtoast

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

A roof over your head is a roof over your head, and they ought to be of a minimum standard.

However it should be a means to an end to give people a footing with which they can get a job and get back into the private rental sector then great. But providing a roof over their head for life - no, no, no, no, no... no. That should not be the aim of the welfare state unless they are sick, disabled, single mothers? Not sure about the single mum issue, the incentive to create babies at a super young age needs to be addressed. Those who can - should. This culture of entitlement must stop and everyone would be better off. There would be more money in the coffers for infrastructure projects, which creates jobs and sparks economic growth.

What culture of entitlement are you talking about?

Do you have any idea, even the barest understanding, of what its like trying to get by in this country on a low salary?

If you want to tackle the culture of entitlement try state pensions, which are 70% of welfare, a good portion of which is paid out to people who are by all normal standards, already rich.

TrickyTree83

ruggedtoast wrote: »

What culture of entitlement are you talking about?

Do you have any idea, even the barest understanding, of what its like trying to get by in this country on a low salary?

If you want to tackle the culture of entitlement try state pensions, which are 70% of welfare, a good portion of which is paid out to people who are by all normal standards, already rich.

Hey I'd be fine with means tested pensions, it'll just mean no one saves for retirement. So then the only other alternative is no state pension at all. If that means I pay less tax, great I can put more into my private pension instead of paying other people's. Life choices, some people will make bad choices and expect the rest of us to bail them out. A bit like banks, but on a smaller scale, and possibly less criminality, maybe.

gadgetmind

ruggedtoast wrote: »

If you want to tackle the culture of entitlement try state pensions

Fine, if the state gives me back the £6kpa in NI that I've been paying for many a decade (with interest, of course) I'll agree to not have a state pension.

I don't feel entitled to it but I've definitely paid for it.