Corbynomics: A Dystopia

ruggedtoast

gadgetmind wrote: »

They do if someone says 'These so called 'affordable' houses are unaffordable for an increasing number of people." and you want to test how true this statement is.

Mortgage affordability is a key part of this testing. Those who think otherwise might like to bear in mind what view they might be expressing if interest rates were at 10%+: I'm pretty sure that this would be used as evidence of unaffordability, so surely lower interest rates move us significantly back towards affordability?

And moving on from there we've seen that house prices in much of the country are such that most working people can buy something suitable. It may not be a palace, and might even be an ex council house, but they'll be paying less to live there than if they rented from the council.

Most working people are able to afford an 85% mortgage if they don't have to start out in life with in excess of £30,000 of student loan debt, on top of the £30k deposit they need to find, and then have to walk straight into a private rental market where in the SE a one bed flat starts at £650pcm.

Not everyone has an engineering degree and is a higher rate taxpayer. Why can't you understand this?

TrickyTree83

If it's their choice to work in a low paid job and live in a high price area why should the state intervene and give them a house they can get a mortgage on?

It's all down to personal choice. No one forces them into these situations.

Where is the personal responsibility for personal choices if the state is going to wade in and give you an affordable house? The choices the individual has made means that they either commute, rent, claim housing benefit/get state aid. Or change their lives by moving to a cheaper area and taking lower pay in a different area of the country or improving their earnings where they currently are. No?

cells

ukcarper wrote: »

Find me one in the South East the cheapest in my area is £280k and I'm not in London. As I said I don't think there is a problem everywhere but its very bad in some parts of the country. I know some people think that low paid workers are not entitled to reasonable accomadation but I do and a basic 2 bed renting at £950 a month puts it out of reach for a very large number of people unless they claim housing benefit.

£280k. £250k mortgage. 2.5% interest.
equals £520 per month.
How much does the local council charge to rent a similar sized type and quality property?

Since you didn't say your exact location im just going to pick a random South East area. Stevenage. According to the ONS Stevenage council average social rents are £465 per month (I had to extrapolate the data two years forward as only 2014/15 rent data is available)


So you have, £520 in interest to buy a property, probably your £280k noted property is better than the average council estate property no doubt. Verses £465 for the social rent.

Can you really cry that £520 per month to buy is very unaffordable when the poorest stock, the council estates, next to council estate folk, costs £465 per month to rent. The difference is just £55 per month is that what you think is crazy?

and I bet there are many more properties available for less than your stated £280k where you are you just dont want less than that

ukcarper

gadgetmind wrote: »

So the issue isn't so much price as snobbery?

No it's just that Dover is not a typical part of south east I would imagine it would be difficult to find a cheap house in many parts of the north.

cells

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Most working people are able to afford an 85% mortgage if they don't have to start out in life with in excess of £30,000 of student loan debt, on top of the £30k deposit they need to find, and then have to walk straight into a private rental market where in the SE a one bed flat starts at £650pcm.

Not everyone has an engineering degree and is a higher rate taxpayer. Why can't you understand this?

most people will have some family help. even if its just allowing your kidaults to live with you for free or a low contribution for a while so they can save up.

A lot of people receive inheritances or gifts, i reckon its in the region of £100-200 billion annually

The median full time male wage is about £35k in most parts of the country

people partner up and by simple stats a lot of rich folk partner up with mostly folk not as rich as themselves


So when you look at someone who has no help, receives no inheritances or gifts, is single, has a min wage job, and lives in an expensive part of the country things may look dire. When you look more at the averages things look very affordable and very cheap for most of the country.


Tell me where you live I will look up the average price, the average social rent, and we can compare the two. Pretty much everywhere outside London is either a great deal lower than social rents or in the SE on par or a little above

gadgetmind

ruggedtoast wrote: »

if they don't have to start out in life with in excess of £30,000 of student loan debt

How much pcm would the debt repayments be for someone on the wage levels we're discussing?

Not everyone has an engineering degree and is a higher rate taxpayer.

I'm not sure of the relevance of this to the discussion but what you say is clearly true.

ukcarper

cells wrote: »

£280k. £250k mortgage. 2.5% interest.
equals £520 per month.
How much does the local council charge to rent a similar sized type and quality property?

Since you didn't say your exact location im just going to pick a random South East area. Stevenage. According to the ONS Stevenage council average social rents are £465 per month (I had to extrapolate the data two years forward as only 2014/15 rent data is available)


So you have, £520 in interest to buy a property, probably your £280k noted property is better than the average council estate property no doubt. Verses £465 for the social rent.

Can you really cry that £520 per month to buy is very unaffordable when the poorest stock, the council estates, next to council estate folk, costs £465 per month to rent. The difference is just £55 per month is that what you think is crazy?

and I bet there are many more properties available for less than your stated £280k where you are you just dont want less than that

How can you get a £250k mortgage on £25k we are in the real world you know.

gadgetmind

ukcarper wrote: »

No it's just that Dover is not a typical part of south east

There are many other areas I could have chosen. You could argue that Surrey is nicer but bear in mind that I have been to Croyden.

I would imagine it would be difficult to find a cheap house in many parts of the north.

Definitely. The city I live in his many "millionaires' row" areas but also swatches of back-to-back terraces. Those on a limited budget need to look at the latter, or maybe an outlying town. Folding their arms and sticking out their bottom lips won't magically make their budget stretch to an 8-bed detached in a nice area.

cells

ukcarper wrote: »

How can you get a £250k mortgage on £25k we are in the real world you know.

The median full time male wage is something like £37k pa, the median full time female wage is lower but still in the 30s. The two combined can easily get a £250k mortgage

Even a couple on £25k each can get a £250k mortgage at the limit of 5x joint income.

But who is talking about £250k plus deposit homes?
The average terrace in most the regions of the uk is much closer to £100k


why not post your town and we can have a look at whats available for the same sum as the local social rent

mwpt

cells wrote: »

The median full time male wage is something like £37k pa, the median full time female wage is lower but still in the 30s. The two combined can easily get a £250k mortgage

Even a couple on £25k each can get a £250k mortgage at the limit of 5x joint income.

But who is talking about £250k plus deposit homes?
The average terrace in most the regions of the uk is much closer to £100k


why not post your town and we can have a look at whats available for the same sum as the local social rent

Not my town, but how about Farnham for commuting in to London?
EDIT: Or preferably working locally.

Search for 2 bedroom houses below £300k returns 0 results.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?searchType=SALE&locationIdentifier=STATION%5E3419&insId=1&radius=1.0&minPrice=&maxPrice=300000&minBedrooms=2&maxBedrooms=&displayPropertyType=houses&maxDaysSinceAdded=&_includeSSTC=on&sortByPriceDescending=&primaryDisplayPropertyType=&secondaryDisplayPropertyType=&oldDisplayPropertyType=&oldPrimaryDisplayPropertyType=&newHome=&auction=false