Teachers' Pensions - given up trying to understand.

saver861

hyubh wrote: »

The subject of this thread, per its subject line, is the Teachers Pension Scheme, not the LGPS. They are different schemes with different rules, and it is not helpful to just assume otherwise

Sure there are multiples of different schemes with different rules etc. In addition, policies and rules change all the time so.

On the other hand, many have similar rules which interconnect - so they may not be completely different

So, while they are not entirely the same, there will be similarities.

hyubh wrote: »

when giving advice, as you have now done repeatedly.

Not sure where you deduced I was giving 'advice' but that would be your incorrect assumption!!! Equally, anyone taking info from these boards as 'advice' would be ill advised. However it is perfectly sensible is to garner opinion, but then have any of those opinions qualified with the relevant scheme providers etc.

However, making some points which would seem relevant to consider would not be giving 'advice'. As I stated in my earlier post, the OP might well be correct in his assessment that he would be better off coming out of the pension earlier. However, suggesting that it would be pertinent to look deeply into that before making a final decision would seem reasonable.

As I have stated, the loss of a number of years pension, along with the risk of AVC returns for five or six years etc etc would all have to be considered in the overall context of the cost v gain scenario of the equation. Nothing unreasonable there I would have thought .... though some would it seems.

OldBeanz

Pennylane wrote: »

hA ha this thread (which I've only just scanned through quickly) is making me laugh. People talking about retiring at 55?

Just suck it up! Life's not always fair. That's what women are being told about the state pension mess.

Had I been born 6 months earlier I would be getting a pension now, as it is I'll lose out on around £20,000 but hey, suck it up. :rotfl:

:T

Oh dear another !!!!!in from the wimmin.

The TPS will have more female pensioners, certainly percentage wise, than any other pension scheme but don't let that hold you back.

Nobody is complaining, they are just discussing the options for maximising their pensions which is the whole point of this forum.

WASPI = me,me,me,me

facade

Thanks for the comments.

To clarify:

I was 51 in 2012, so I'm still on the 80ths final salary scheme NPA 60.
Also I lost my B allowance (due to "restructuring") and the protection ran out Dec 2014, giving me a 10% pay cut, which fixes when I must retire (before Dec 2021) to keep the higher salary in the frame for the calculation.

I'm now working 0.6 as there is no way I would make 60 on a full timetable (yes retiring early through ill-health would access the pension, but then I would be ill, which is rather a pyrrhic victory)

Strikes me that I'm paying money into the scheme to reduce what I get when I retire in 4 years time.
If I simply stacked my next 4 years contributions under the bed (and paid income tax on them) I would have a nice little cash sum and a larger pension.

I really need those cpi figures.

(And now I'm contracted back in, I'm paying more NI and won't see any benefit, as my 25 years contracted out means my "new" state pension is so far below the old contracted out one that the safety net applies and I'll never get above it in 4 years, so that is even more money paid out to get nothing back- This I do have to suck up though so there is no point worrying about it )

jem16

saver861 wrote: »

Sure there are multiples of different schemes with different rules etc. In addition, policies and rules change all the time so.

On the other hand, many have similar rules which interconnect - so they may not be completely different

So, while they are not entirely the same, there will be similarities.

There are similarities amongst some schemes although to be honest, the LGPS is the odd-one-out.

However you did rather jump into a thread about the TPS quoting rules from the LGPS whilst not mentioning the fact that it was the LGPS you were quoting from - that part was not particularly helpful and was actually misleading.

The whole point about whether it is or is not a good idea is down to the way the TPS is calculated.

jem16

facade wrote: »

I really need those cpi figures.

In what respect? I have a spreadsheet based on the Scottish salaries which uses the PI figures to work out the best 3 years out of the last 10. You could use that with your own salaries.

(And now I'm contracted back in, I'm paying more NI and won't see any benefit, as my 25 years contracted out means my "new" state pension is so far below the old contracted out one that the safety net applies and I'll never get above it in 4 years, so that is even more money paid out to get nothing back- This I do have to suck up though so there is no point worrying about it )

That's not true. Your NI contributions from now on will add £4.44pw to your Starting amount which will allow you to increase your state pension from what is probably the old basic state pension until you reach the new £155pw.

frugal90

this is a really interesting thread for me and my wife.

I am approaching 54, still in the 80th scheme whereas my wife is approaching 48 and in the CARE scheme.

We want to stop once I hit 56 and wife hits 50- too many other things to do.

We don't plan to take benefits until we are each aged 60 so no actuarial reductions. We have bought back years so I will have 35.886/80ths at age 56 and my wife will have 27/80ths and 3 CARE years at state pension . The contracts for the buy back will be completed in June of this year.

I am now on a conserved salary for the next three years due to job sizing so my salary will not rise again before we retire.

To cover the four year gap until I take my benefits at 60 we have been investing into a SIPP each for many years now and also plan to build a cash reserve over the next 2 and a bit years. We will then take the max personal allowance currently £11000 each year and steadily rising + 25 % tax free part to cover the gap along with cash savings. Then we will have my pension at 60 - followed by the same plan for my wife until she hits 60 . We have a aimed everything at a required joint income of £30000 per anum and are currently on track.

Now my question, because my salary will not rise further in the next 3 years and inflation is looking to stay very near zero. Would I be better coming out of the teachers scheme before April 5th next April (2017)- I would be on just under 34.866/80ths by then and the deferred pension would benefit from uplift and also and cpi rises until I draw it at 60? It would also free up some cash to help cover the gap.

I am amazed how much I learn from these sort of threads

regards and thanks to all contributors, especially Jem

frugal

facade

jem16 wrote: »

In what respect? I have a spreadsheet based on the Scottish salaries which uses the PI figures to work out the best 3 years out of the last 10. You could use that with your own salaries.

Could you let me have a copy please? I can change the salary to mine

jem16 wrote: »

That's not true. Your NI contributions from now on will add £4.44pw to your Starting amount which will allow you to increase your state pension from what is probably the old basic state pension until you reach the new £155pw.

I wasn't clear on this part, so April this year puts a line under what you get (the old contracted out state pension*) and I can increase it through 4 more years of contracted in :cool:

*No fair, as I have 10 years of contracted in prior to teaching that is negated quite nicely by the reduction calculation they apply
[They could simply use contacted in total divided by 35 x "new" pension plus (30-contracted in) divided by 30 x old contracted out pension, but then I'd get more ]

jem16

frugal90 wrote: »

Now my question, because my salary will not rise further in the next 3 years and inflation is looking to stay very near zero. Would I be better coming out of the teachers scheme before April 5th next April (2017)- I would be on just under 34.866/80ths by then and the deferred pension would benefit from uplift and also and cpi rises until I draw it at 60? It would also free up some cash to help cover the gap.

Why not work out what your pension would be if you did and compare it to coming out a year later? You have the spreadsheet to help you.

jem16

facade wrote: »

Could you let me have a copy please? I can change the salary to mine

Send me a pm with your email address then.

I wasn't clear on this part, so April this year puts a line under what you get (the old contracted out state pension*) and I can increase it through 4 more years of contracted in :cool:

It does. You could always pay voluntary contributions after that should you desire.

*No fair, as I have 10 years of contracted in prior to teaching that is negated quite nicely by the reduction calculation they apply
[They could simply use contacted in total divided by 35 x "new" pension plus (30-contracted in) divided by 30 x old contracted out pension, but then I'd get more ]

The idea is though that your contracted out years are covered by your contracted out pension so you're not losing out. In fact as you're able to build up more now, you're actually going to be one of the winners as you'll have a state pension near ( or at ) the full single tier rate plus your contracted out pension.

saver861

jem16 wrote: »

There are similarities amongst some schemes although to be honest, the LGPS is the odd-one-out.

I don't know how many different pension schemes there are but there will be similarities and differences in all. I'm not sure many will have a full understanding of all of them!

jem16 wrote: »

However you did rather jump into a thread about the TPS quoting rules from the LGPS whilst not mentioning the fact that it was the LGPS you were quoting from - that part was not particularly helpful and was actually misleading.

I'm posting from my understanding and, as above, clearly that will be incorrect in some cases. That's not intended to mislead!! Posters post all the time on their understanding and if that is incorrect its likely someone else will point out the correction - thats how these forums work.

The OP has since posted that he is not part of the CARE scheme which changes the view etc etc. That's the way these forums work.

I would always encourage posters to post their opinions, and not to worry whether they are correct or not. That will be pointed out and everyone learns.

The irony of hubhy response to me is that he stated I was giving 'advice'. The whole premise of this board is that nothing posted can be constituted as advice - so by his own definition, he is incorrect though, no doubt, the irony will be lost on some!!

jem16 wrote: »

The whole point about whether it is or is not a good idea is down to the way the TPS is calculated.

It is and down to each personal circumstance of the individual. My own pension arrangements were complicated, due to varying contracts, and I have benefited from historical calculations of the best of three etc. I know also that took a deal of calculating and going back and forth to the scheme provider to clarify point after point. That's what anyone else should do in similar circumstances to ensure they are acting on the correct and up to date advice.