Why Exactly Are Northern Ireland Wages So Low? (Merged)

leftieM

dj9928 wrote: »

You know how to stop this?? Don't pay sick pay, You go to any factory across the provence I can guarantee they don't pay sick pay and if your off for more than 3 days you then get the stat sick pay, I guarantee attendance is better than any civil servant office. I mean why should I be paying for a civil servants day off when they just feel like a duvet day, madness

That is precisely the 'stick' approach i referred to earlier that creates employees who feel insecure and afraid. What's the value of a sick employee coming into work because they can't afford to stay at home and rest? What about an alternative system - employees who don't take unnecessary sick days because they feel that their work is important, they want to do it and they know that they are valued. If they take a day off sick they know they won't be penalised by a suspicious employer, rather they will receive sympathy from an employer that trusts them.
Utopia? Fantasy? Impossible? No it's the way the top UK companies behave. I've been in one and seen it in action.

nickcardwell

You go to any factory across the provence I can guarantee they don't pay sick pay and if your off for more than 3 days you then get the stat sick pay,

If anything that would encourage anyone whos sick to take at least a week off..

Another idea from what i heard the other day (and was shocked to hear) a certain car dealership in northern ireland will actually pay employees a monthly bonus of £200 if:
1. They turn into work on time.
2. They dont take any sick days that month.

Thriftylady

dj9928 wrote: »

My neighbour is a civil servant, and she has the best holidays I ever seen, she is always bloody off on the sick, Nurses are another good one for pulling sickies, My best mates wife is a nurse and she will think nothing of going on the sick for a week. You know how to stop this?? Don't pay sick pay, You go to any factory across the provence I can guarantee they don't pay sick pay and if your off for more than 3 days you then get the stat sick pay, I guarantee attendance is better than any civil servant office. I mean why should I be paying for a civil servants day off when they just feel like a duvet day, madness

I'm not denying that some civil servants do this, but the vast majority don't. The fact that your neighbour is always off on the sick doesn't mean that every civil servant who takes a day off sick just does it because they don't feel like going to work.

I'm as aggrieved as anyone about paying taxes to fund other peoples laziness, it infuriates me and its something that both employers and the benefits system should really be tackling better. But at the same time, I really despair of the mentality that we have in this country where its assumed that anyone who is sick must be faking it, or is in some way too lazy to work. Some people are off work sick because they are actually sick. For example, I don't think you'll find too many people going through chemo who are just doing it to get a few days off work, and its worth bearing in mind that people such as these will be included in the often quoted statistics regarding attendance.

furrychimp

dj9928 wrote: »

My neighbour is a civil servant, and she has the best holidays I ever seen, she is always bloody off on the sick, Nurses are another good one for pulling sickies, My best mates wife is a nurse and she will think nothing of going on the sick for a week. You know how to stop this?? Don't pay sick pay, You go to any factory across the provence I can guarantee they don't pay sick pay and if your off for more than 3 days you then get the stat sick pay, I guarantee attendance is better than any civil servant office. I mean why should I be paying for a civil servants day off when they just feel like a duvet day, madness

This is one of the stupidest posts i have ever seen...do you know your neighbour's full medical history? are you a doctor who can diagnose her? FYI civil service has crap pay, the same holidays as anyone else on average and by the way, civil servants pay income tax too! i'm not a civil servant but these pointless and stupid posts really annoy me...how will not paying sick pay stop people taking days off for serious conditions such as cancer, heart attacks etc??? do you honestly think it is better to play the martyr & go to work to spread your germs everywhere when you are ill?not all civil service sick leave is fully paid either, they actually reach a point of getting nothing at all, and can be dismissed for poor sick records...why don't you just grow up!

dj9928

furrychimp wrote: »

This is one of the stupidest posts i have ever seen...do you know your neighbour's full medical history? are you a doctor who can diagnose her? FYI civil service has crap pay, the same holidays as anyone else on average and by the way, civil servants pay income tax too! i'm not a civil servant but these pointless and stupid posts really annoy me...how will not paying sick pay stop people taking days off for serious conditions such as cancer, heart attacks etc??? do you honestly think it is better to play the martyr & go to work to spread your germs everywhere when you are ill?not all civil service sick leave is fully paid either, they actually reach a point of getting nothing at all, and can be dismissed for poor sick records...why don't you just grow up!

The simple fact is its a minority who actually getting paid for being off sick, Average Joe does not get paid for being off sick. The idea behind it is, if you are genuinely sick you will need a few days off say you have measels or something, you don't get paid for the first 3 days, after that you get stat sick pay and I don't what that is but it stops the likes of the Monday club. I don't think its a good idea at all to be at work if you are sick, but the sad fact is alot of us have no choice, I have a week immune system, Anything thats going about I get, If I took off everytime I was sick I wouldn't be there,

I am basing Civil servants on my neighbour, for example, has has 2 weeks in July, is currently off for another week at the min, between July and now has also had another couple of days off. And will have i'm sure about another 5 or more days off before xmas, Now myself I get 2 wks at xmas, a few days at easter, 2 weeks in summer, she has all these plus a bit more, now if civil servants get the same holidays as everyone else she is obviously pulling a sickies.

talksalot81

furrychimp wrote: »

This is one of the stupidest posts i have ever seen...do you know your neighbour's full medical history? are you a doctor who can diagnose her? FYI civil service has crap pay, the same holidays as anyone else on average and by the way, civil servants pay income tax too! i'm not a civil servant but these pointless and stupid posts really annoy me...how will not paying sick pay stop people taking days off for serious conditions such as cancer, heart attacks etc??? do you honestly think it is better to play the martyr & go to work to spread your germs everywhere when you are ill?not all civil service sick leave is fully paid either, they actually reach a point of getting nothing at all, and can be dismissed for poor sick records...why don't you just grow up!

My wife is a CS and her daily experience is almost totally in disagreement with you. The pay is not awful - bottom of the pile people get as much if not more than in the private sector and have a significantly higher level of additional 'benefits'. As you go up the chain, the pay rises strongly and is far from awful. Going out on the sick is an enormous problem because very little is done if a doctors letter is obtained (and that is little more than a case of knowing the right doctor and paying for exaggeration of the truth). My wife cannot recall having ever encountered an individual who has been dismissed from the CS for any reason, much less their sick days.

Colin_Kee

In my own personal opinion I believe it doesn't help either, that as soon as an employer tries to dissipline or dismiss someone nowadays the old Religious/Sex/Racial/(You Name It) discrimination card is pulled... So In some cases the opposite to what Leftie says is happening in that employers are sometimes scared to disipline or dismiss people from fear of being sued or taken to tribunals which is more-so the case in Public Sector because of the strong union representation.. I have heard of cases where people have been disiplined/dismissed and they have sited all the above i.e Racial, Sexual, Religious Descrimination in the hope that something will stick and to just basically make the emploer back down.

sharnad

dj9928 wrote: »

The simple fact is its a minority who actually getting paid for being off sick, Average Joe does not get paid for being off sick. The idea behind it is, if you are genuinely sick you will need a few days off say you have measels or something, you don't get paid for the first 3 days, after that you get stat sick pay and I don't what that is but it stops the likes of the Monday club. I don't think its a good idea at all to be at work if you are sick, but the sad fact is alot of us have no choice, I have a week immune system, Anything thats going about I get, If I took off everytime I was sick I wouldn't be there,

I am basing Civil servants on my neighbour, for example, has has 2 weeks in July, is currently off for another week at the min, between July and now has also had another couple of days off. And will have i'm sure about another 5 or more days off before xmas, Now myself I get 2 wks at xmas, a few days at easter, 2 weeks in summer, she has all these plus a bit more, now if civil servants get the same holidays as everyone else she is obviously pulling a sickies.

She could be on flexi which means she can have 3 days flexi a month and one week a year extra on top of the 25 days you get if your been working there several years

IvanOpinion

Colin_Kee wrote: »

In my own personal opinion I believe it doesn't help either, that as soon as an employer tries to dissipline or dismiss someone nowadays the old Religious/Sex/Racial/(You Name It) discrimination card is pulled... So In some cases the opposite to what Leftie says is happening in that employers are sometimes scared to disipline or dismiss people from fear of being sued or taken to tribunals which is more-so the case in Public Sector because of the strong union representation.. I have heard of cases where people have been disiplined/dismissed and they have sited all the above i.e Racial, Sexual, Religious Descrimination in the hope that something will stick and to just basically make the emploer back down.

Actually the biggest card I see being played hese days is hat if you dare criticise a worker who has been crassly incompetent leaving a mess for others to sort out while they take a convenient sickie then it is considered 'bullying'. When it comes to appriasals then half the people should be no better than 'average' however when you read through the appriasals it talks about how wonderful everybody is ... which makes it even more difficult to subsequently tell that person that they have not been performing adequately.

Ivan

IvanOpinion

From what I remember 57% of the working population in NI works directly for the public sector with a further 18% working indirectly for it .. so that is 75% of the working population basically administering this province (whether that be health, education, security or, as the vast majority are, paper pushing). The public sector also accounts for 70% of GDP which is ridiculous. A decent set of figures should be about 40-45% of working population in the public sector therefore it is obvious exactly how bloated it is. It really is time that the tax payer got value for money and that if additional monies are needed then, instead of recruiting more non-jobs, the savings should be found by decreasing the size of the public sector (I would suggest starting by decreasing it by 20-25%). This has to be a gradual process though with investment ensuring that proper jobs are available in the private sector to take up the slack.


In more than one government department I have seen their wall charts planning out holidays with little coloured dots ... different colours being used for statutory days, holiday entitlement and sick days ... it was amazing the number of sick days planned up to 6 months in advance that were used to bolster the number of days off. In all cases the managers saw no problem in people using sick or duvet days ... in the words of one 'use em or lose em'.

Ivan