Is it us or HMRC?

Savvy_Sue

DH has been asked to file a tax return for 2013-14, and knows he needs to do one for 2014-15 so had already registered and got his UTR. (He couldn't find it but I pointed out that the Tax Reference on the letter telling him to file was probably Unique so try that.)

Here's the problem. He can login. He's tried to register for Self Assessment, but the website returns an error message to say he can't do so. So we thought maybe he'd already registered, so we've tried to unregister him and THAT bit says he's not registered for any services.

Is he doomed to have to phone them? I've said not today, first thing tomorrow ...

xylophone

https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/information/help?helpcategory=security&helpid=UniqueTaxpayReference

UTR is not the same as tax reference.

The example in the above shows the UTR as a ten digit number, the tax reference as a number with letters and figures.

https://www.gov.uk/register-for-self-assessment/overview

Savvy_Sue

xylophone wrote: »

https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/information/help?helpcategory=security&helpid=UniqueTaxpayReference

UTR is not the same as tax reference.

The example in the above shows the UTR as a ten digit number, the tax reference as a number with letters and figures.

https://www.gov.uk/register-for-self-assessment/overview

Well that's just even more confusing.

His login is a 10 digit number.

His tax reference on the letter telling him to complete the tax return is a different 10 digit number.

From the first link you gave me:

Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR)The Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR) is only issued by HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) when you, or your client, have registered for Self Assessment. It is made up of 10 numbers, for example 1234567890, and can be found on documentation issued by HMRC such as the Tax Return (SA100), a 'Notice to complete a Tax Return' (SA316) or a Statement of Account.
Depending on the type of document issued the reference may be printed next to the headings 'Tax Reference', 'UTR' or 'Official Use'.

So he has 10 numbers next to where it says 'Tax Reference'.

However, I am wondering if at least some of the confusion has arisen because ...

• he registered with HMRC as self-employed some time in the 2014-15 tax year
• he was employed under PAYE until September 2014, not doing anything self-employed
• he now needs to do a tax return for 2013-14 when he was employed not self-employed

BUT I still do not understand how he can succeed in logging in but not be able to add any services when he isn't registered for any either!



Phone call it will have to be.

Pennywise

OK, to login into the HMRC online system (i.e. govt gateway) - he'd need a ten digit code and a password to do that. I presume he can do that, but that once in, there's nowhere for him to complete the SA return.

Don't register for SA again - you'll get an error because he's already registered for SA.

What he needs to do is "enrol" for additional services, in this case, self assessment. Then he'll be asked on screen for his UTR (a different 10 digit number), and then if it all works, HMRC will send an activation code which will facilitate access to the SA part of the online system, thus allowing him to complete and submit his SA return(s).

Savvy_Sue

Pennywise wrote: »

OK, to login into the HMRC online system (i.e. govt gateway) - he'd need a ten digit code and a password to do that. I presume he can do that, but that once in, there's nowhere for him to complete the SA return.

Correct that he can login, and that there doesn't seem to be anywhere he can go after that.

Pennywise wrote: »

Don't register for SA again - you'll get an error because he's already registered for SA.

What he needs to do is "enrol" for additional services, in this case, self assessment.

There is a possibility that we are confused between 'registering' and 'enrolling' but even if there is, I didn't see an option for 'enrolling' when I peered over his shoulder.

Pennywise wrote: »

Then he'll be asked on screen for his UTR (a different 10 digit number), and then if it all works, HMRC will send an activation code which will facilitate access to the SA part of the online system, thus allowing him to complete and submit his SA return(s).

I shall have to ask him about the activation code. But if he's had it, he's lost it :mad: and probably won't remember whether he's had it or not :mad::mad: and if he hasn't had it, we haven't worked out how to ask for it.

I'll go and re-read all the letters I can find. Earlier in the year he waved one under my nose saying "they said they'd sorted this out!" until I pointed out that it was about his national insurance payments, NOT actual tax.

Now that's a question which might lead to some clarity: I know he's had a letter explaining how NI payments are made now (added to the tax payment once he's done his SA) - would that indicate what he's succeeded in registering for?

antrobus

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

...So he has 10 numbers next to where it says 'Tax Reference'.....

Have a look at this HMRC help page here;
https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/information/help?helpcategory=security&helpid=UniqueTaxpayReference

As you can see, that example Tax Return shown reveals both a 'UTR' and a Tax Reference. If your DH's Tax Return does not have those three letters UTR followed by a ten digit number, then he hasn't got one.

Savvy_Sue

Thanks. BTW, he has tried their online contact forms, and the message he gets back is that he'll be able to see his UTR when he logs in. He can't ...

https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/information/help?helpcategory=security&helpid=UniqueTaxpayReference

I'm re-posting your link because there was a rogue space in it.

And interestingly, YOUR link says something slightly different to xylophone's ...

xylophone

Found this https://help.gosimpletax.com/hc/en-gb/articles/202028568-How-to-get-my-HMRC-User-ID-Password-and-UTR-

I wonder should he have followed the "printing, signing and posting" process?

xylophone

I have just had a look at my own SA return - (I have always done them "snail mail" so never really looked closely at info at the top.....)

Anyway, the UTR is ten digits- five space five and is not the same as the tax reference.

A recent letter from HMRC adjured me to "Remember the Unique Tax Payer Reference (UTR) as your reference is yours for life........":eek:

and I don't remember asking for one at all...

Savvy_Sue

xylophone wrote: »

Found this https://help.gosimpletax.com/hc/en-gb/articles/202028568-How-to-get-my-HMRC-User-ID-Password-and-UTR-

I wonder should he have followed the "printing, signing and posting" process?

Who knows? I shall show him this growing thread and see if he can remember.

I have suggested that he should print the forms so that at least we can start work on them well before the deadline.

Savvy_Sue

I don't know if this is progress or not, but DH has found his self assessment forms from 2001. This gives him a UTR (labelled as such) in the form 11111 11111.

And guess what? It's the same as the Tax Reference on his SA316 (do a self assessment) for 2013-14.

And we've tried entering that number where it asks for his UTR and it doesn't seem to get him anywhere. We are back at Post 1, where he isn't registered for self-assessment, can't register for self-assessment, isn't registered for anything, can't register for anything.

He will have to get up early and phone them. I have to get up early and go to work so I may prod him.