Should workers be rewarded for the profits they help to create?

JencParker

Yes

CLAPTON wrote: »

one can only conclude that many people on this thread
either

-always research the employment condition of their providers of goods and services
-or always go the most expensive providers on the grounds that they 'probably ' treat their workers better.


and also can't distinguish between the presentation of an argument and the merits of the argument

Or one can conclude that some people on this thread make assumptions about others because it makes them feel clever and right even though it makes them look stupid....


I find it hard to believe anyone is stupid enough to believe that the most expensive providers treat their workers better. I find it difficult to believe you are so naïve to come up with that suggestion!

Graham_Devon

Yes

CLAPTON wrote: »

so you hear a rumour

and you don't bother about 99.9999% of companies you deal with : but only the ones that make the headlines (and even then without doing any actual research : note newspapers aren't ALWAYS correct)

Rumour?

Your are being extremely narrow minded here clapton and I'm not sure why.

You haven't seen the documentries in Amazon for example? I have. It's enought o make me think "ok I won't shop there".

You haven't seen the documentries on Sports Direct? I have, it's enought to make me think "ok I won't shop there".

You haven't heard the evidence about Primark? Apple?

I won't buy Bernard Matthews turkey either after seeing a documentary on that company.

It's not really that hard. I probably unknowingly buy things from places I wouldn't choose to do so if I had more knowledge, but I'm not sitting there, as you assume, trawling for information for days before I purchase a bag of crisps.

It's really not that hard to understand.

antrobus

JencParker wrote: »

Who tend to get profit shares!

Which would be part of the price paid for their labour.

antrobus

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

...It is patently unclear whether the OP wants 'fat-cat' pay reduced, or shelf-stackers' pay to increase, or employees to get profit share [won't see that in Tesco's for a while?]. Or does he simply want to rape the economy to throw more money at the bottom decile of life's losers in the interest of so-called 'fairness'?....

Lack of clarity is the OP's speciality.:)

P.S. Of course, Tesco does have a profit-sharing scheme, although (sadly) the bonus was only 1% this year, due to certain circumstances. There is however, the offer of an additional turnaround bonus of 5% on the table at the moment.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/10/tesco-staff-promised-turnaround-bonus-sales-profits-dave-lewis

CLAPTON

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Rumour?

Your are being extremely narrow minded here clapton and I'm not sure why.

You haven't seen the documentries in Amazon for example? I have. It's enought o make me think "ok I won't shop there".

You haven't seen the documentries on Sports Direct? I have, it's enought to make me think "ok I won't shop there".

You haven't heard the evidence about Primark? Apple?

I won't buy Bernard Matthews turkey either after seeing a documentary on that company.

It's not really that hard. I probably unknowingly buy things from places I wouldn't choose to do so if I had more knowledge, but I'm not sitting there, as you assume, trawling for information for days before I purchase a bag of crisps.

It's really not that hard to understand.

so you are confirming that your approach is to rely on documentaries and so have no view unless there is a TV program about it.
I've no idea about Bernard Matthews but naturally you have fully researched your alternative source.

CLAPTON

JencParker wrote: »

Or one can conclude that some people on this thread make assumptions about others because it makes them feel clever and right even though it makes them look stupid....


I find it hard to believe anyone is stupid enough to believe that the most expensive providers treat their workers better. I find it difficult to believe you are so naïve to come up with that suggestion!

do tell us what YOU actually do about checking on the companies you buy from

Graham_Devon

Yes

CLAPTON wrote: »

so you are confirming that your approach is to rely on documentaries and so have no view unless there is a TV program about it.
I've no idea about Bernard Matthews but naturally you have fully researched your alternative source.

You are trying a bit too hard to make me look silly clapton.

I'll use the information available to make a choice.

That's not exactly groundbreaking now is it.

If you disagree, then state why. But continually throwing around assumptions in order to try and make me look silly is starting to backfire.

As for Bernard Matthews, some years ago now workers were filmed using live turkeys in a game of baseball, basically using the turkeys as the ball. This wasn't a one off, there were several filmed instances. The most shocking aspect of it is that managers turned a blind eye. It may have been some years ago, but any company that allowed that to happen isn't going to be on my shopping list.

Further to that, there was another less than palatable exercise carried out by the company in 2007. They imprted H1N1 birds which cost them a lot in losses. Bernard Matthews dealt with the loss of income by sacking loads fo workers. However, the government has handed BM a large six figure subsidy to avoid doing this and basically pay them for their losses. BM simply banked the cash and refused to pay the workers.

You are tryign to make out I make off the cuff, stupid decisions based on nothing. it's my choice where I shop or what I buy. Why would I buy from BM? Because it's cheaper? well that's not the be all and end all for me.

Hopefully you may now think "would I want to support a company like that". That's all it takes. You've been given the evidence to base a decision on. That's all thousands of other people do all over the country - yet you seem unable to grasp this?

CLAPTON

Graham_Devon wrote: »

You are trying a bit too hard to make me look silly clapton.

I'll use the information available to make a choice.

That's not exactly groundbreaking or indeed, controversial or weird.

no, I'm not trying to make anyone look silly, but am assuming that in practice, most people make no attempt to adjust their buying habits on a realistic basis but respond to TV or newspaper stories rather than a comparative analysis.
The consequences may be worse for the working people but it makes some feel very smug and morally superior.

Like all the stories about child labour being used to make Nike trainers : the consequences of the moral outrage didn't improve the lot of the children but rich westerns certainly celebrated their moral certitude.

Graham_Devon

Yes

CLAPTON wrote: »

no, I'm not trying to make anyone look silly, but am assuming that in practice, most people make no attempt to adjust their buying habits on a realistic basis but respond to TV or newspaper stories rather than a comparative analysis.
The consequences may be worse for the working people but it makes some feel very smug and morally superior.

Like all the stories about child labour being used to make Nike trainers : the consequences of the moral outrage didn't improve the lot of the children but rich westerns certainly celebrated their moral certitude.

If the suggestion is that the price of a cheap turkey twizzler for a family comes above birds being used for games of baseball then I have to say I thouroughly disagree.

No one here is suggesting they are going to change the world through their one man buying power.

All I'm saying is I do not wish to pass my money to company which has several times been filmed and taken to court for various less than ethical practices.

I really fail to see why you are arguing over this?

mayonnaise

No

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Rumour?

Your are being extremely narrow minded here clapton and I'm not sure why.

You haven't seen the documentries in Amazon for example? I have. It's enought o make me think "ok I won't shop there".

You haven't seen the documentries on Sports Direct? I have, it's enought to make me think "ok I won't shop there".

You haven't heard the evidence about Primark? Apple?

I won't buy Bernard Matthews turkey either after seeing a documentary on that company.

It's not really that hard. I probably unknowingly buy things from places I wouldn't choose to do so if I had more knowledge, but I'm not sitting there, as you assume, trawling for information for days before I purchase a bag of crisps.

It's really not that hard to understand.

Have you seen the documentries (sic) on Foxconn also? Taiwanese electronic components firm with their main manufacturing base in China. You might remember reports of them putting nets below factory windows to prevent employees from jumping.
Foxconn suplies;
Sony
Microsoft
Nintendo
Blackberry
Sharp
Acer
Cisco
Dell
JVC
Hewlett Packard
Panasonic
Motorola
Toshiba

...the list goes on...

I assume you use none of these brands, being so wonderfully ethical?
What's the manufacturer of the device you post your MSE ramblings on? Your TV? Your mobile?
Such naivety.