CSA To CMS

CherryDrop

Hi, hoping someone can help.


DH has 2 children from 2 previous relationships. He has been paying CSA by DEO for the last 4 years (no bashing please) Arrears will be fully cleared by October.


We have been doing some reading up on the "transfer" to CMS from the CSA and trying to be proactive about it all, he has not received any letters regarding his case being transferred or either PWC's setting up a plan with CMS yet.


DH is thinking of writing a letter to both PWCs and offering £64 p/w (£32 each child) by Standing Order from October as this is the amount confirmed on the Child Maintenance options website after entering his details. From what we can gather, if the PWC were to use the collect and pay service, they would need to have 6% deducted from this amount, they would also need to pay the £20 set up fee, and DH would also have to pay a further 20% on top of what he would be paying as well.


DH does not currently see either child and we have a 2 year old son together, once again, no bashing please. He would like to see both children if PWCs & the children allow and is hoping to ask this in his letter as well but doesn't know if he should maybe just address the payment issue first and then think about visits once this has been well established.


Does this sound like the right course of action to be taken or should he wait for communication from the PWCs? He fully holds his hands up to not being the most proactive or compliant person regarding this matter in the past but wants to try and gain some kind of trust from PWC's to hopefully help him
see his children again.


Would he have to ask the PWCs to close their case with CSA in order for him to then start paying the family based arrangement? And could this process be started now ASAP or would he need to wait for the "Go ahead" from CSA confirming his case will be closed between now and 2017?


Hoping someone can give some helpful, impartial advice, thanks in advance.

DUTR

From what I remember the rate on CSA is based on NET and the CMS based on GROSS, so by a few ££s the NRP is not having to contribute at the same rate.
In between the lines it appears you are asking the other PWCs to close the cases? They may not wish to do this as at present the CSA are managing the cases.

CherryDrop

DUTR wrote: »

From what I remember the rate on CSA is based on NET and the CMS based on GROSS, so by a few ££s the NRP is not having to contribute at the same rate.
In between the lines it appears you are asking the other PWCs to close the cases? They may not wish to do this as at present the CSA are managing the cases.

Thanks for your reply


Not trying to do anything "in between the lines". Ive asked IF we would have to ask PWC's to close their cases for us to start this, im not saying they HAVE to or this is what we're urging them to do, DH wants to get his financial affairs sorted sooner rather then later so that we can continue our family life without worrying about this coming round the corner to surprise us whilst unprepared.


We have used the Child Maintenance options website and that confirms a monthly payment of £264 from DH. In October normal payments to the CSA Will resume of £235 so we understand the payment difference and are actually trying to initiate the new, higher payment to the PWCs sooner rather then later.


I understand if you think it may look like we're just trying to get them to close their cases so we can pull a fast one and stop paying, but believe me this really isn't the case.

shoe*diva79

Hi Cherry

Your husband can ask his previous partners to close the current cases and set up a private agreement but obviously they dont need to so he would have to wait until the CSA contact to say the case is closing. As a guide, I received a letter on Friday saying my case will close mid February so giving 6 months notice.

Hopefully he can then agree a private agreement. If they want to go through the CMS they will be charged a £20 fee but your husband can use direct pay to each of them which avoids the additional fees. However, if he messes them around and does not pay then they can request the CMS to collect on their behalf and he will be subject to a 20% fee on top of the assessment. They in turn will pay a 4% fee.

With regard to the contact, nothing wrong with asking for it now. How old are the children? If the mothers do not allow contact then its quite cheap and fairly simple (speaking from experience!) to get a child arrangements order. The reason I ask the age of the kids is that if your husband goes the court route, their feelings may be taken into consideration if they are older than around 10 - 12 years old. I can offer further advice on this if you feel it beneficial.

CherryDrop

Thank you Shoe, that is really helpful.

Just thinking about which way the PWC's would see as more beneficial to them.. If they chose collect and pay, would they then see the extra 20% DH Pays or is that purely an administrative fee to CMS and they would still just get his payment minus the 4% CMS fee to them? (Hope that makes sense!)

Would it be helpful for DH to maybe contact CSA to find out when his case is closing? Just so we can prepare ourselves, like you say you got 6 months notice anyway so hopefully we should be alright anyway.

The children are 9 and 12 now, so we will maybe address the contact with our first letter to them and if DH Doesn't get any joy we can have a look at a child arrangements order, money has always been an issue in the past with regards to legal assistance etc but we're slowly getting back on our feet so can hopefully make some in roads now

Thanks again

shoe*diva79

The collect and pay wouldnt happen straight away. Your husband would be given the opportunity to pay them directly attracting no fees. They cannot demand collect and pay. If he screws up and messes them around with payments then collect and pay could kick in. The 20% fee he pays goes to the CMS, not the PWC. They would have 4% deducted from what they receive.

No point contacting the CSA because there are literally thousands of cases so they wont be able to give you a reasonable answer.

You wont need legal assistance for a child arrangements order. You literally pay the fee (around £220) and you all turn up in court. Beforehand you need to set out in a statement what it is you want as does the other party. The court will not be interested in whats happened before or money for child maintenance. They will only be interested in getting meaningful relationships with both parents sorted out. Before court you will have to do mediation to try and come to an agreement if you cannot agree between yourselves.

Not saying this is the case, but as an example, even if your husband had been violent or taking drugs or whatever previously, the court would still arrange contact but it may be in a contact centre supervised as a start with a view to building on that. Of course, this is a worst case scenario. If its just a case of contact breaking down then it will be resumed, maybe on a short term basis with contact building upto overnight visits etc.

CherryDrop

Great advice, thank you Shoe.

We've got a letter typed up for each PWC with completed family arrangement form ready to send when we get the confirmation from the CSA of the cases being closed, we were going to send letters now but from your advice we think it's best to wait for that confirmation now.

Wrt the child arrangement order, I don't suppose anything could be done if the PWC don't turn up to the court date arranged? No foul play from either party previously, just, like you say a breakdown of communication and one PWC just isn't willing at all, DH is of the belief his daughter will make contact if/when she wants too (he has tried many times to arrange contact "amicably" directly though PWC but she's having none of it) but he's starting to get a bit down recently about the whole situation and wants to do all her can so he can at least tell DD when he is able too that he tried all he could.

justontime

My husband did exactly what you suggested in your question. His circumstances were slightly different to your partners, there were no arrears (in fact he was owed a significant sum). The case CSA case hadn't reached the point of closure but he contacted the PWC with an offer (above the amount she would get on the new system) and after some negotiations they reached a deal. We then put it all in writing with both parents signing and copies for both parents. She closed the CSA case and he set up the payment as a standing order.

If you try to get this sort of arrangement you must make it attractive enough for the PWCs to take the risk and you must make absolutely sure that you stick to every detail of the agreement. My husband set his standing order up to pay a week before the due date so that he had time to correct a problem if anything went wrong. It may be best for your partner to wait until the arrears are paid off before trying to set up a private arrangement, it will be less messy that way. I don't think its a good idea to try to link the contact issue with the child support negotiations, get the new payment arrangement set up first, then deal with the contact issue. If your partner can get a private agreement it can lead to more constructive communication and hopefully this could make it easier to address the issue of contact.

Well done for planning ahead, I hope it all works out well for you.

13Kent

Can I just ask if only one PWC agreed to this and closed the case and the other case remained open with the CSA would the percentage the NRP be expected to pay via CSA increase for the one child on the case that still remained on CSA as he was only then only paying for one child with the CSA and not two, as for two children on CSA the percentage paid is split between the two children and is less per child? Therefore he is paying more for the one child still on CSA than he would have been for that child when two children were included in the calculation?

The calculation makes allowances for a child to be paid for via CSA and a child living with the NRP but there doesn't seem to be an option for the NRP to be paying for a child that doesn't live with the NRP and isn't being included in a CSA calculation.

Hope that makes sense!!