So much safer for cyclists to be allowed to go through red!

Marco_Panettone

brat wrote: »

Our main town centre lights have three phases for traffic and one for pedestrians. The real misusers of these lights are pedestrians who cross in droves as soon as the traffic phases change. They don't even look to see where the next phase of traffic is coming from, nor do they (generally) look to see if the approaching traffic is going to offer them the protection that they don't seem keen to take any personal responsibility for.

I've often found myself weaving slowly and carefully through pedestrians blindly crossing on the red pedestrian light, occasionally getting abuse as I do so.

It's one of these junctions that cyclists could benefit from going through on red. A few do, the majority stop,
But pedestrians adopt a lemming mentality and follow others without thinking about the potential risk to themselves.

This is what happens when motor traffic is prioritised, and it's the same for people on bikes too. When you set up the environment to actively restrict movement of people not vehicles then people will take it into their own hands.


At junctions like that there should be a 'simultaneous green' phase for all pedestrians and all bikes between every single motor traffic phase to reduce delays for active travel.

brat

Marco_Panettone wrote: »

This is what happens when motor traffic is prioritised, and it's the same for people on bikes too. When you set up the environment to actively restrict movement of people not vehicles then people will take it into their own hands.


At junctions like that there should be a 'simultaneous green' phase for all pedestrians and all bikes between every single motor traffic phase to reduce delays for active travel.

The junction changed 8 years ago because the town centre north of the lights was being pedestrianised. Unfortunately this meant that all northbound through traffic had to be deflected round an (as yet unsatisfactory) alternate route. During busy times, which seems to be all day, the through traffic builds up at this new bottleneck, congesting other junctions.
If pedestrians had a green light between each traffic phase it would exacerbate that congestion.
The solution would be the completion of the currently partial town bypass which would offer an alternative to through traffic and significantly reduce the traffic volume.

Marco_Panettone

brat wrote: »

The junction changed 8 years ago because the town centre north of the lights was being pedestrianised. Unfortunately this meant that all northbound through traffic had to be deflected round an (as yet unsatisfactory) alternate route. During busy times, which seems to be all day, the through traffic builds up at this new bottleneck, congesting other junctions.
If pedestrians had a green light between each traffic phase it would exacerbate that congestion.
The solution would be the completion of the currently partial town bypass which would offer an alternative to through traffic and significantly reduce the traffic volume.

It might, but if walking and cycling were more convenient then many of those vehicle journeys might not happen at all. It simply isn't possible to have both free-flowing traffic AND easy movement of pedestrians. The current balance is far too far toward the motor traffic movement.

brat

Marco_Panettone wrote: »

It might, but if walking and cycling were more convenient then many of those vehicle journeys might not happen at all. It simply isn't possible to have both free-flowing traffic AND easy movement of pedestrians. The current balance is far too far toward the motor traffic movement.

I think you've probably got a picture of a junction in your mind that doesn't fit this one. There are actually ample safe opportunities for opportunist pedestrians to cross on red; only one phase causes one crossing to be impassable for pedestrians during its phase. But many will instinctively start to cross when the lights turn red for traffic without looking to the traffic (buses, taxis and cyclists) emanating from the pedestrian zone on their green light, and this is primarily where they conflict with traffic.

I accept that restricting traffic flow may cause people to use alternate means of travel, which I see as a good thing, but at rush hour the bottleneck to these lights already causes a queue of a couple of miles. It's a 15/20 minute delay that motorists seem consigned to. I'm glad I don't have to endure this commute, my cycle commute is painless, but the bus and train services are slower or non-existent. If people haven't already changed their commuting habits, they probably won't.

Altarf

Retrogamer wrote: »

I know a lot of pedestians that will gauge when to walk cross based on the lights the traffic should be following. I.e the traffic light is red, it should be safe to cross.

You mean like this morning.

A junction with ONLY traffic lights and no pedestrian crossing lights.

The traffic light is red for the vehicles coming out of the T junction onto the main road and cross onto an offset exit the other side.

A bunch of cyclists waiting at the red light to cross to the other side of the dual carriageway (even they realise that jumping that set of red lights and heading across four lanes of cars, buses and trucks is suicide).

I check again before stepping off the pavement that the light is red to the cyclists and set off to cross.

Part way across, and before the lights turned green, some idiot cyclist actually starts cycling at me because they are anticipating the lights changing.

Is it a qualification to be a cyclists that you have to be a complete moron.

Strong words were had.

custardy

Altarf wrote: »

You mean like this morning.

A junction with ONLY traffic lights and no pedestrian crossing lights.

The traffic light is red for the vehicles coming out of the T junction onto the main road and cross onto an offset exit the other side.

A bunch of cyclists waiting at the red light to cross to the other side of the dual carriageway (even they realise that jumping that set of red lights and heading across four lanes of cars, buses and trucks is suicide).

I check again before stepping off the pavement that the light is red to the cyclists and set off to cross.

Part way across, and before the lights turned green, some idiot cyclist actually starts cycling at me because they are anticipating the lights changing.

Is it a qualification to be a cyclists that you have to be a complete moron.

Strong words were had.

You had a 'whole bunch' to ask,so why didnt you?

esuhl

Altarf wrote: »

Strong words were had.

That must have made your day! It sounds like you enjoy being angry!

Retrogamer

Altarf wrote: »

You mean like this morning.

A junction with ONLY traffic lights and no pedestrian crossing lights.

The traffic light is red for the vehicles coming out of the T junction onto the main road and cross onto an offset exit the other side.

A bunch of cyclists waiting at the red light to cross to the other side of the dual carriageway (even they realise that jumping that set of red lights and heading across four lanes of cars, buses and trucks is suicide).

I check again before stepping off the pavement that the light is red to the cyclists and set off to cross.

Part way across, and before the lights turned green, some idiot cyclist actually starts cycling at me because they are anticipating the lights changing.

Is it a qualification to be a cyclists that you have to be a complete moron.

Strong words were had.

I have a similar story.

In this scenario i made up in my head that fits my prejudiced views and makes me sound justified from my perspective, i was driving towards a green light in my car and a pedestrian ran out in front of me and i almost hit them.

Is it a qualification to be a pedestrian that you have to be a complete moron?

frisbeej

I have a similar story.


I was riding towards a junction and a parked car decided to pull out, drive on the right side of the road and cut the corner while turning right, all without looking. Causing me on a bike, a car approaching the junction and a couple of pedestrians to all take sudden avoiding action.


Is it a qualification to be a driver that you have to be a complete moron? How is the moron factor scaled if you affect more types of road users? Is it 3 times or 8 times?

Retrogamer

And just in case my and the other posts fly over anyone's heads, you get morons in every group but it seems unreasonable to call everyone in that group a moron just because some of them area.

This might be difficult to grasp for some posters though.