DMP & Mutual Support Thread - Part 11

Puzzcat

I was going to sit on the fence but actually.. I agree totally with TTFTM. As far as I am concerned my full debt is the amount I started my dmp with and if I pay it off in full then that to me is paying it all back. Sorry but that's my opinion.


Puzz. x

gilmum

This whole thing is so complicated. We all have different debts, different reasons for being in debt and different goals that we want to achieve. I think psychologically for me paying back every penny of the debt balance when I started by DMP will feel really good, but I agree that it is not really paying back every penny as I am not paying interest which I am contractually obliged to repay - is there really any difference between not paying back part of the balance or not paying part of the interest ? Psychologically for me probably, but I have no real rationale for that. I certainly won't judge anyone else about what their goal is. My husband would be quite happy to be able to get away with paying nothing back as he thinks about how much they made from us before we even started the DMP - we have been in serious debt for 20 years. I can see his point of view but for me paying back the balance is my non-rationale goal. I admire people who want to CCA everything and avoid paying things back, simply in the hope that it will encourage banks etc to be more sensible about borrowing - this may already be happening, I don't know as it is a while since I tried to borrow. I take responsibility for my actions but do feel that Barclays were a little irresponsible offering me, as a young professional in my 20's a "Select" account, where at any time, just by making a phone call I could ask for money to be put in my current account up to a total of £19,000. I didn't apply for a loan and didn't need this facility I was just offered it and loved it - 20 years later I am still paying it off and the many credit cards that followed and I'm living with the consequences of having a "it's just another £1,000" mentality as well as unexpected unemployment, 3rd baby etc.
I love this site as for the first time in many years I have realised there are lots of us in the same boat and there should be no place for judgement - lets just continue to support each other in achieving whatever goals we have by sharing tips and experiences.

Brogden

Puzzcat wrote: »

I was going to sit on the fence but actually.. I agree totally with TTFTM. As far as I am concerned my full debt is the amount I started my dmp with and if I pay it off in full then that to me is paying it all back. Sorry but that's my opinion.


Puzz. x

Puzz,

I respect your opinion but why have you therefore started the CCA process with a creditor?

Bx

Puzzcat

Brogden wrote: »

Puzz,

I respect your opinion but why have you therefore started the CCA process with a creditor?

Bx

You missed the bold if brogs!!!

sourcrates

No one ever pays full price for anything, if your smart.

You go to buy a new car, if your anything like me, you barter down the price with the salesman.
Go to a shop to buy a new table, what's the price for cash mate ?

Everything is up for negotiation, if you ask, of course, lots don't ask, either there too embarrassed or just like paying over the odds.

The debt industry is no different, the whole system of borrowing in this country is loaded in the lenders favour, first they lend you money they don't have, then they charge you interest on that money, and that interest rate remember, is variable, which means over the years, you will repay a shed load of interest on your borrowings, oh, and let's not forget the convenient £12 a time charges for been 30 seconds late paying, another rip off.

If you default, that's ok too, as they claim tax relief on that delinquent debt, then make more money selling on the debt, and remember, this is all money they never had in the first place, they are just digits on a screen.

Not wanting to be rude to anyone here, but do I feel guilty ?

The only guilt I feel was to be drawn into such a corrupt system in the first place.

I respect everyone's opinion, but find some of your comments astonishing in light of all the corruption the banks have been involved in recently, PPI must be the biggest rip off in financial history where the banks blatantly lied to there customers

AND NO ONE BATS AN EYELID !!!!!!!

Dos anyone thing the banks feel any guilt over this ?

I seriously doubt it.

powerful men protected by a system they helped create.

January2015

Lots of discussion on the thread - I think all of us who have arrived at this thread have reached a point where we recognise we had over extended ourselves on the credit path and have decided to deal with the issues; hence the DMPs we are (or have been) on.

I will pay back what I can, using legal avenues open to me to minimise the total I pay. As long as all parties agree (that means me, DH, predators, DCAs, etc) I will consider I have repaid what we owe in full. If they don't agree to an offer, then I continue paying until they get the amount they are demanding. However, if a predator or DCA agree to a reduced offer - they are being paid what they are happy with to close the account regardless of whether the account balance was originally higher than the amount agreed to close it - so to me I've paid in full the amount they want. {DH would say that is female logic }

Similarly, if any predator recognises a debt as being unenforceable - that is a legal avenue for me not to pay until they can identify it is enforceable. I have reached the mindset this is something I need to take advantage of.

I know everyone has their own view of paying back in full, using unenforceability rules etc. I respect everyone's view; each person has a choice and they themselves need to be comfortable with the decisions they make.

Happy Wednesday everyone

Sazzie23

Brogden wrote: »

I'm doing well this week for a man of lowly principles...........it's taken me until Tuesday to be insulted

TTFTM, I do not believe my principles are lesser than yours on the basis of anything said by either of us on this thread. If you have spoken about 'paying back every penny' then I believe you but I couldn't otherwise have been sure. I have stumbled on these words mentioned by various people on various threads over the last few years.

Congratulations on your debt free status :T but the 'principle' of 'paying back every penny' is unfortunately very flawed unless (1) the debt has not been assigned away from the original creditor (2) the debt is not settled partially and (3) full interest in accordance with the terms and conditions of the account is paid until the balance is extinguished.

In a DMP we will virtually all be guilty of letting down the original predator in at least one of these. We are then somebody who they wish they had never engaged with and we are a drain and a loss maker for them.

At the point the agreement ends in a default then they can (and usually do) cut their losses and sell for a low price. It is then surely reasonable that we cut our losses and settle for a low price too.

We will all be careful with money (particularly now) so....would we pay more than we need to escape from a contract where the provider of the service has terminated their agreement with us? Would we pay more than we need to a buidling firm who has prematurely left the job?

For these reasons I cannot 'get' this idea that we should punish ourselves additionally by 'paying it all back' because in many cases we are simply not paying back and could not pay it all back even if we tried to.

I don't want an argument but we deserve it to ourselves to think carefully about how much we pay and who we pay it to.

For a man of lowly principles I have spent a hell of a lot of time thinking about this and how the whole thing sits with me .

Brogden I think that's unfair on TTFTM, there was no insult in the post and no mention that you had lowly principles, that is your inference, and I'm surprised you feel that way. As TTFTM said, your principles are different, and that's ok, we all are different.

I choose to drive at the speed limit, yes it naffs of others but I prefer it that way and I'll continue to do so whenever I can, doesn't mean I think any more or less of those that speed, just that their lifestyle has a different risk assessment to mine.

TTFTM has had her share of DMP rebellion against predators and supported many on here going through the same process and I respect her approach, just as I respect yours and anyone else fighting their way through the system.

I do believe it's wrong to try to impose my ideas on others, which is why I have left my friend in a paying DMP, no I don't agree with her method but that's her choice, I've given the advice I think she needs and she says it's not for her, doesn't make her a lesser person any more than it makes any of us lesser or better for the way we do things.

This forum allows us to express our opinions and advise and I'd hate anyone to think they couldn't come on for fear of being ridiculed in any way.

That's my view:D:D

bsclp118

Sorry to change the topic slightly but I have just got my DMP confirmation through from stepchange and I have a question.

The repayments to 3 of my credit cards (that happen to be interest free at the moment) is over the minimum monthly repayments.

Will these accounts show as upto date on my credit history or will they have the "AP" markers on them just because I am in the arrangement? Obviously I expect my accounts that I will be paying less than the contractual payments to have a mark - but just wondered if I'm paying over the minimum will these accounts just show as up to date?

Time_to_face_the_music

Brogden wrote: »

I'm doing well this week for a man of lowly principles...........it's taken me until Tuesday to be insulted

I didn't insult you. You however did insult me with your references to holier than thou, bragging and should be a politician.

TTFTM, I do not believe my principles are lesser than yours on the basis of anything said by either of us on this thread. If you have spoken about 'paying back every penny' then I believe you but I couldn't otherwise have been sure. I have stumbled on these words mentioned by various people on various threads over the last few years.

I never stated that your principles were lesser than mine, I said they were different.

Congratulations on your debt free status :T but the 'principle' of 'paying back every penny' is unfortunately very flawed unless (1) the debt has not been assigned away from the original creditor (2) the debt is not settled partially and (3) full interest in accordance with the terms and conditions of the account is paid until the balance is extinguished.

1) From a starting point of 11 debts, only one was ever assigned to a DCA.
2) No debts were settled partially.
3) Not sure what your point is here but I fought tooth and nail to get interest stopped on all our debts.

In a DMP we will virtually all be guilty of letting down the original predator in at least one of these. We are then somebody who they wish they had never engaged with and we are a drain and a loss maker for them.

Agreed

At the point the agreement ends in a default then they can (and usually do) cut their losses and sell for a low price. It is then surely reasonable that we cut our losses and settle for a low price too.

From our 11 debts, only 4 were defaulted and I had to fight to get 2 of these defaults, which were both very late. I am currently starting the process of getting defaults backdated and APs changed to defaults.

We will all be careful with money (particularly now) so....would we pay more than we need to escape from a contract where the provider of the service has terminated their agreement with us? Would we pay more than we need to a buidling firm who has prematurely left the job?

If this is the case, why are you offering settlements on unenforceable debt?

For these reasons I cannot 'get' this idea that we should punish ourselves additionally by 'paying it all back' because in many cases we are simply not paying back and could not pay it all back even if we tried to.

No self punishment, just a sense of responsibility. Many people seem to develop their debt slowly, ours came as a massive lump sum of debt following a small flood and the insurance claim work uncovered massive faults in our house that we previously had no idea about. We had to borrow the money to sort this out, we had the credit available but once we had borrowed it, the banks then hiked the interest rates on the CCs we had used, one example was 12.9% to 29.9%. Maybe you can now see where I am coming from with wanting to pay back the money we owed but refusing to pay the interest.

I don't want an argument but we deserve it to ourselves to think carefully about how much we pay and who we pay it to.

I did and I do

For a man of lowly principles I have spent a hell of a lot of time thinking about this and how the whole thing sits with me .

Thanks for giving it your careful consideration but maybe you should read posts, check back your own original post and should know more about other people's circumstances before passing judgement.

There is more than one path to becoming debt free, I took mine and you are taking yours, as long as we all get there in the end, that's good by me. Like us all having different principles and being different in all kinds of ways, it makes life much more interesting.

Thanks everyone for your comments on this discussion, it's nice to know I'm still remembered on the thread that was my home for so long

TTFTM x

Time_to_face_the_music

bsclp118 wrote: »

Sorry to change the topic slightly but I have just got my DMP confirmation through from stepchange and I have a question.

The repayments to 3 of my credit cards (that happen to be interest free at the moment) is over the minimum monthly repayments.

Will these accounts show as upto date on my credit history or will they have the "AP" markers on them just because I am in the arrangement? Obviously I expect my accounts that I will be paying less than the contractual payments to have a mark - but just wondered if I'm paying over the minimum will these accounts just show as up to date?

Stepchange have an unusual way of allocating payments to creditors and this caused massive problems at the start of our DMP.

My concern about this would be that above minimum payments can trigger creditors to consider you are not in financial difficulty and hence refuse to stop interest. I know you have stated that these debts are interest free at the moment but that may stop when they find out you are entering a DMP and possibly breaking the T&C of the credit agreement.

With current payments, would the debts be paid off before the interest free period ends? If so, I would keep them out of the DMP but you will need to fight this with Stepchange. The alternative is to consider self managing your DMP and look at how the payments would change. You don' have to commit to this but just take a look and put the figures in and see what comes out:

https://nedcab.cabmoney.org.uk/dmp.asp

TTFTM x