Gamecube and/or PS3

Sheepster

When you think about it, MS wanted at first for their new console to be download only, or there was strong hints to this.
That could have gone two ways, either the law of supply and demand would have kicked in, and with a zero trade-in market (Bye bye GAME, CEX etc) games might have stayed at a high price forever. Or it could have gone the way we only need to look at Steam on the pc gaming market, way cheaper in the long run.

With more and more people getting decent internet, and with frankly these new consoles needing decent speed internet anyway (Often having a multi-GB update required means a 2mb internet connection which many still have just doesn't cut it), then this would have been the modern way to go.

But - in comes Sony and whether it was their plan all along to still use the old physical disc method, or whether they saw a marketing opportunity, they pretty much killed off this piece of innovation.

I strongly suspect it was opportunism, because the architecture of the PS4, just like the Xbone, the medium has to be installed to the hard drive. It's like they were planning all along to be download as well. Maybe they've held back the gaming evolution by this.

I do also unfortunately suspect if console gaming was download only, they'd have kept the prices high, and Steam is only lower because PC gamers won't put up with that crap

Lumstorm

PenguinJim wrote: »

You say "ask permission" like you don't already "ask permission" every time you check your email, or check your bank balance online, or post on MoneySavingExpert (and I know you already "ask permission" to do at least one of those things ). What an emotive way to describe a user login!

What I meant by permission is the unacceptable always-on DRM like they have on some PC games if your doing something online you have to login I know that, but if the game is single player and has no online content I should be able to play as long as I have the disc and a working machine. Ubisoft used this on some of their PC games where it had to connect to a server to authenticate you had a genuine disc if the server or your internet goes down you are locked out of playing the game. This system is to fight piracy but all it does is punish those who buy their games as the the pirate version get cracked to remove the need to phone home. If we had such a system in previous generations every Megadrive and SNES game would be unplayable because the servers would now be down.

PenguinJim

Lumstorm wrote: »

What I meant by permission is the unacceptable always-on DRM...

Another strike. Microsoft never announced always-on DRM for the One, or even alluded to it.

I wonder what might have happened had people bothered to listen to the proposal instead of fallaciously knee-jerking and spreading assumptions and misinformation. (Although, as Sheepster says, Sony probably had the same system in mind, so we'd still have the two indistinguishable, undistinguished consoles on the market - still, I have the feeling that the "daily" login would have been relaxed to "less than daily" before launch.)

(You should also perhaps do some research into the DRM/piracy assumption, because it looks like you might have some gaps there, too, but that's really getting off-topic!)

Johnmcl7

PenguinJim wrote: »

Another strike. Microsoft never announced always-on DRM for the One, or even alluded to it.

I wonder what might have happened had people bothered to listen to the proposal instead of fallaciously knee-jerking and spreading assumptions and misinformation. (Although, as Sheepster says, Sony probably had the same system in mind, so we'd still have the two indistinguishable, undistinguished consoles on the market - still, I have the feeling that the "daily" login would have been relaxed to "less than daily" before launch.)

(You should also perhaps do some research into the DRM/piracy assumption, because it looks like you might have some gaps there, too, but that's really getting off-topic!)

I listened carefully to the proposals and I wouldn't have bought an Xbox One if they'd gone ahead with it. It's all well and good going on about the benefits of it the system as you see it but you seem to largely ignore the downsides. I've been through plenty stupid DRM systems on the PC, yes they might sound ok in theory but only if the system is working correctly and that's not always the case. In addition, many of the sharing features and similar were going to be far more restrictive than people were assuming they would be.

There's a lot of comparisons that the Xbox system would be similar to Steam and as Steam is popular, that would mean the Xbox system must be good as well. Putting aside Steam issues (its online authentication is meant to be fairly flexible yet I've had it fail to go offline even though it was online minutes before) I like Steam because I can regularly buy games for a fraction of their price which to me is fair because the game has no value once purchased. If I'm paying the higher amount for an Xbox One game then a disc is much more preferable as I can easily sell it on or loan it to people. I realise they claimed it was going to be possible to trade and sell games with the original Xbox One version but again the details were sketchy and the leaked details showed a fairly restrictive system with none of the freedom currently offered by disc titles.

I don't see it as a 'gaming evolution' to have a highly restrictive system that puts you entirely at the mercy of Microsoft, it's fine that you were wildly optimistic and believed Microsoft's claims but going by the leaked details and a dose of pragmitism it wasn't going to be a good system for the consumer.

With regards to the original question, I think it's well worth picking up older consoles as the units are cheap and the games are as well. The Xbox One's backwards compatibility is an impressive technical achievement but it's not a magic fix for all games and I suspect for those wanting to play 360 games it would be a lot more straightforward to just have a 360. I'm certainly not getting rid of mine any time soon, it would be good from a clutter point of view not to have to keep the older consoles around but that's the way it is.

John

PenguinJim

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

I listened carefully to the proposals and I wouldn't have bought an Xbox One if they'd gone ahead with it.

Me neither (as I said earlier).

But I also haven't felt the need to lie about what they proposed. In fact... ah, yes, I thought your name rang a bell.

Johnmcl7,_a_while_back wrote: »

Microsoft proposed a system similar to Steam where physical copies of the game would contain the game data but would register to a single Microsoft account and be worthless once registered.

Worthless... except you could sell them? And hey, you're still banging this drum today! Next time listen MORE carefully!

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

...despite the reduced value of the digital Xbox One games they were still going to charge full price.
....
If I'm paying the higher amount for an Xbox One game...

Yes, and Steam charges full price for their games, too. Go and have a look - see all the £40 games? That's NORMAL for Steam. But we don't have to buy our Steam download games from Steam. We can buy them from Amazon, or Game, or any one of a hundred places. The same would have been true for Xbox One download games. I don't think you've understood that the games wouldn't only be available from XBL.

Heck, forget the PC comparison - you can even see the download codes for console games like ACIV on One and Last of Us Remastered on PS4 for just a glimpse of what happens every time download games become available from multiple sellers. £4-7 games - do many disc games fall into that category? (Actually, they do, but I already said to forget the PC comparison. )

Please note how I cite real-world examples instead of FUD. I could have made statements along the lines of "oh, and the whole system would have suffered from technical problems", as you imply, or "it was definitely going to be utterly restrictive and therefore pointless", as you suggest, but I also wasn't saying it would definitely be an overall improvement - I was saying I would have liked them to try something new, whether it worked out or not, and whether it was suitable for me or not. I don't trust Microsoft or Sony to get it perfectly right - Sony's PSN is still a joke and they hold the records for the number of system lies and post-sale feature removals in history, and Microsoft's history with GFWL and MSN Music (I know you don't know - just Google it) didn't bode well for a trustworthy system either. But we now have the alternative, instead: we now have console gaming stagnating for eight more years, and surely no gamer can be happy about that.

ObeWanKenobe75

I have a ps4 as well as a PS3 I have the ps4 in the living room and PS3 in the bedroom, recently Sony is rolling out something new for the ps4 called PlayStation Now which you will be able to play older games and also if your ps4 is in one room you can link it to another tv in your house I think maybe you need a smart TVs for that not sure don't quote me on that anyway google it give it some research now I've said that I think I'll go research it now myself.

Sheepster

Oh yes, Playstation Now is their subscription service, where you can play a growing number of old games, costs though with a monthly subscription.
The drawback to this is that you could alternatively buy an old PS3 (Or Xbox 360, doesn't matter but it makes sense to get the old version of whatever your current console is so you can share Xbox Gold or PSN) and buy those old games at say CEX for peanuts, play them then even get a couple of quid back when you trade them in. Unless you really don't have the space or don't like clutter, there's just no comparison.

Yes, the ability to play in a different room, it's Playstation tv. There is a hit on the picture quality apparently but it sounds a useful albeit not cheap way to game in a different room.
Xbone is in the next few weeks rolling out with Windows 10 the ability also to do this to any pc running Windows 10, so if you have a laptop you can connect this to a different tv, or even play on some crappy supermarket own tablet. Whether there will be a graphics drop hasn't been said yet.
That frankly sounds a killer application for anyone with a family or busy household, but of course it's something PC gamers would have been able to do easily enough