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Employer Loan
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Hi Everyone
I'm shiney and new here and have a problem with a former employer that just wont seem to go away and I'm not at all sure what I can do about it.
The Background:
Nov 2013, my employer offered me an employee loan to help with some spiralling divorce cost. I agreed, but was reluctant because the repayments were to be set very high. My employer wrote to me stating that they would drop the repayments after a few months.
March 2014. I asked my employer if they could reduce the repayments as agreed so i could pay my now higher divorce costs, they refused. 3 days later they came back and offered me a second loan, at the same rate and on the same terms. I didn't have too much of a choice and by accepting the second loan it meant i would be able to pay my final legal bills and move on with my life.
Feb 2015: I left my employer and agreed a repayment schedule with them. After a lot of backward and forward and threats from them to make my payments even higher, they accepted a large lump sum and a minimum payment per month. Since then I actually paid more than i offered in the lump sum and my repayments have been more than the minimum they accepted.
June 2015: On the 2nd of June i received an email form my former employer informing me that they have decided (for no apparent reason) to recall in the remaining debt and have appointed a debt recovery individual to recover the monies owed. I of course expressed my surprise, pointed out clearly that we have a repayment schedule agreed, one i have not only stuck to, but exceeded and since the original loan came into being i have never fallen into arrears or defaulted.
Since the 2nd what has followed is a period of calls, emails more calls, threats of bankruptcy, accusations of being a "dirty borrower" and not "honouring my debts" and all sorts of unpleasantness. Which is just not true, i was grateful for the financial assistance at the time, but i firmly believe that gratitude should not extend to being bullied into accepting unreasonable demands and conditions.
Last week, the debt recovery gentleman suggested a resolution may be to put a more formal agreement in place, that gives his client the legal mechanisms to recover the debt from me should i ever default and so on. I agreed and pointed out that seeing as i have never missed a payment and have always paid more than the minimum id happily (In principle) agree to such a document being put in place, provided there is a clause in there that makes clear they are to cease all contact with me in any form and to refrain from any activity which could be interpreted as detrimental, disparaging etc etc. (I work in a very small industry). As the call was coming to an end, the debt guy had a Steve Jobs moment...."one more thing". I was told that no agreement could be put in place unless i accepted their costs incurred since the "recovery action" began of £7,000. I of course politely declined his request and suggested that these costs are not at all justified given i have not defaulted on the existing agreement.
And so we appear to be in deadlock.....
On Friday evening (19th) i receive an email directly from my former employer informing me that "on investigation and advice" it appears that my second loan was not with my former employer but with another company that he owns and that there is no agreement in place between us, no repayments have been made to this other company and as such he is calling in the entire debt, plus interest by the 29th June.
Apologies, its a long convoluted story and theres a lot of background detail relating to some very bad blood between this individual and I. But principally, i have been advised and believe firmly that I am repaying the loan, have consistently made my repayments and exceeded them, I'm repaying them to the company i was told to and have never missed a single payment. Therefore, can he apply to make me bankrupt based on his version that states the loan wasn't with my employer but another of his companies and I'm not repaying that company, rather the one he told me to inFeb/March?
I feel quite strongly that this is bullying, pure and simple and that i have and continue to honour my agreements and have given them no reasons to make such demands of me. my concern is though that if they go to court to apply for a bankruptcy petition they will not present the full facts, only those that suit their purpose, namely that a debt exists with his other company and there is no arrangement in place.
Appreciate any advice anyone who has experience of this type of behaviour or process.
To reiterate, I’m not trying to wiggle out of a debt, not seeking to have it written off because he's basically a bully, i am paying it, have been paying and will continue to repay every last single £. Its a matter of personal pride and conviction that it is.
I'm shiney and new here and have a problem with a former employer that just wont seem to go away and I'm not at all sure what I can do about it.
The Background:
Nov 2013, my employer offered me an employee loan to help with some spiralling divorce cost. I agreed, but was reluctant because the repayments were to be set very high. My employer wrote to me stating that they would drop the repayments after a few months.
March 2014. I asked my employer if they could reduce the repayments as agreed so i could pay my now higher divorce costs, they refused. 3 days later they came back and offered me a second loan, at the same rate and on the same terms. I didn't have too much of a choice and by accepting the second loan it meant i would be able to pay my final legal bills and move on with my life.
Feb 2015: I left my employer and agreed a repayment schedule with them. After a lot of backward and forward and threats from them to make my payments even higher, they accepted a large lump sum and a minimum payment per month. Since then I actually paid more than i offered in the lump sum and my repayments have been more than the minimum they accepted.
June 2015: On the 2nd of June i received an email form my former employer informing me that they have decided (for no apparent reason) to recall in the remaining debt and have appointed a debt recovery individual to recover the monies owed. I of course expressed my surprise, pointed out clearly that we have a repayment schedule agreed, one i have not only stuck to, but exceeded and since the original loan came into being i have never fallen into arrears or defaulted.
Since the 2nd what has followed is a period of calls, emails more calls, threats of bankruptcy, accusations of being a "dirty borrower" and not "honouring my debts" and all sorts of unpleasantness. Which is just not true, i was grateful for the financial assistance at the time, but i firmly believe that gratitude should not extend to being bullied into accepting unreasonable demands and conditions.
Last week, the debt recovery gentleman suggested a resolution may be to put a more formal agreement in place, that gives his client the legal mechanisms to recover the debt from me should i ever default and so on. I agreed and pointed out that seeing as i have never missed a payment and have always paid more than the minimum id happily (In principle) agree to such a document being put in place, provided there is a clause in there that makes clear they are to cease all contact with me in any form and to refrain from any activity which could be interpreted as detrimental, disparaging etc etc. (I work in a very small industry). As the call was coming to an end, the debt guy had a Steve Jobs moment...."one more thing". I was told that no agreement could be put in place unless i accepted their costs incurred since the "recovery action" began of £7,000. I of course politely declined his request and suggested that these costs are not at all justified given i have not defaulted on the existing agreement.
And so we appear to be in deadlock.....
On Friday evening (19th) i receive an email directly from my former employer informing me that "on investigation and advice" it appears that my second loan was not with my former employer but with another company that he owns and that there is no agreement in place between us, no repayments have been made to this other company and as such he is calling in the entire debt, plus interest by the 29th June.
Apologies, its a long convoluted story and theres a lot of background detail relating to some very bad blood between this individual and I. But principally, i have been advised and believe firmly that I am repaying the loan, have consistently made my repayments and exceeded them, I'm repaying them to the company i was told to and have never missed a single payment. Therefore, can he apply to make me bankrupt based on his version that states the loan wasn't with my employer but another of his companies and I'm not repaying that company, rather the one he told me to inFeb/March?
I feel quite strongly that this is bullying, pure and simple and that i have and continue to honour my agreements and have given them no reasons to make such demands of me. my concern is though that if they go to court to apply for a bankruptcy petition they will not present the full facts, only those that suit their purpose, namely that a debt exists with his other company and there is no arrangement in place.
Appreciate any advice anyone who has experience of this type of behaviour or process.
To reiterate, I’m not trying to wiggle out of a debt, not seeking to have it written off because he's basically a bully, i am paying it, have been paying and will continue to repay every last single £. Its a matter of personal pride and conviction that it is.
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Comments
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Were either of the loans contingent on you remaining an employee of the company?
The letter you received saying they would reduce your payments... do you still have this?
What paperwork do you have for either loan?"Facism arrives as your friend. It will restore your honour, make you feel proud, protect your house, give you a job, clean up the neighbourhood, remind you of how great you once were, clear out the venal and the corrupt, remove anything you feel is unlike you... [it] doesn't walk in saying, "our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution."0 -
That's quite a long post.
Could you summarise the (written) agreement that is in place between you and your employers?0 -
Neither of the loans were contingent on my remaining employed by the company.
The original loan had an agreement in place that stated an interest rate, that they could recall the loan at anytime and payments were to be made directly form my salary each month. When the second loan was applied i asked for an updated agreement but was not provided with one despite asking several times.
On my departure i negotiated with the company a repayment schedule, which they wrote back and stated they would accept a lump payment by the end of march 2015 (Actually paid on the 12th) and a minimum payment each month thereafter. I exceeded both of those obligations and continue to do so.
I have the original email confirming their agreement to reduce the repayments, which ultimately they did not do which resulted in me needing to accept the second loan. The first loan has been fully repaid, and a significant amount against the second to date0 -
I'm confused about the second loan and why you had to accept it - you say it had the same rate and terms as the first?Neither of the loans were contingent on my remaining employed by the company.
The original loan had an agreement in place that stated an interest rate, that they could recall the loan at anytime and payments were to be made directly form my salary each month. When the second loan was applied i asked for an updated agreement but was not provided with one despite asking several times.
On my departure i negotiated with the company a repayment schedule, which they wrote back and stated they would accept a lump payment by the end of march 2015 (Actually paid on the 12th) and a minimum payment each month thereafter. I exceeded both of those obligations and continue to do so.
I have the original email confirming their agreement to reduce the repayments, which ultimately they did not do which resulted in me needing to accept the second loan. The first loan has been fully repaid, and a significant amount against the second to date"Facism arrives as your friend. It will restore your honour, make you feel proud, protect your house, give you a job, clean up the neighbourhood, remind you of how great you once were, clear out the venal and the corrupt, remove anything you feel is unlike you... [it] doesn't walk in saying, "our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution."0 -
The second loan was offered to me after my employer refused to lower the repayments on the first. I had needed the repayments lowering and i foresaw the need to have them lowered when i took out the first loan because i knew i would continue to incur solicitor costs until my divorce was settled. My theory being, that the first loan would settled the debt i had inherited from my marriage and pay my legal costs to that point. And the reduction in payments once my divorcee was settled would allow me to then make payments to my solicitor.
I asked for an agreement for the second loan, but none was supplied. When i left in February this year i negotiated a repayment schedule with them to clear the first loan and begin to repay the second. Thats agreement has been stuck to and exceeded. It is the second loan that they are now informing me isn't with my employer (who i have been repaying since feb) but with another company (owed by my employer) and that there is no agreement and no repayments have been made so they are calling the debt in.
Apologies, it is a very confusing situation and I'm trying to keep it as simple and brief as i can0 -
Your employer sounds like a right cowboy outfit.
With no agreement in place, I would be telling him to sod off with that attitude !!0 -
I already have, repeatedly. But i haven't stopped payments, have continued to make them and will do until every last £ is repaid as was agreed in March
I just can't make him seem to stop harassing me with letters and emails.0 -
The original loan had an agreement in place that stated an interest rate, that they could recall the loan at anytime and payments were to be made directly form my salary each month. When the second loan was applied i asked for an updated agreement but was not provided with one despite asking several times.
Regardless of your payment history, there's your problem right there......Its amazing how these banks can't even do simple calculations correctly..............0 -
I would have agreed with you a few days ago. But the loan to which that condition applies has been settled as was pointed out to me.
And they themselves by acknowledging that and stating that the second loan is with another company and there is no agreement then how can they demand instant repayment.
As i understood it, if a debtor is repaying his/her creditor then the creditors ability to enforce early repayment is limited until such time as the editor defaults? This is the crux of the matter, chiefly that they are making loud demands and threats which i believe are not enforceable because i am honouring all agreements, am repaying. But i don't seem to have a route to stop them. other than to chuck ££££ at a solicitor to pursue them for harassment etc etc. Which just adds more rancour, frustration and only makes lawyers richer0 -
The terms of the agreement appear to have been varied by the repayment schedule agreed in February 2015, so unless there is anything in the revised terms that allows your former employer to insist on payment in full at any time, it would seem that there is no longer any entitlement to do so.
OP, reiterate to your former employer in writing that you intend to comply with your legal obligations by continuing to make repayments in accordance with the terms agreed in February 2015.
The rest is all bluster, and criminal bluster at that. Refer them to s.40, Administration of Justice Act 1970 and make clear that if they continue to harass you, you will take appropriate steps in relation to their breach of criminal law.
If they don't like it, it's up to them to take civil proceedings against you if they think they have a case, but it doesn't sound like it.0
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