Friends Life: must be computer error?

dunstonh

Many years ago, I remember a batch of statements that were produced with wrong valuations (all lower). The statements were generated during a period of maintenance and someone forgot to suspend the workflows and the statements went out missing some of the funds.

A silly error but a human error. In the past, people would have shrugged their shoulders and accepted it. Nowadays, tolerance of human error seems to be lower.

agarnett

A silly error but a human error. In the past, people would have shrugged their shoulders and accepted it. Nowadays, tolerance of human error seems to be lower.

In the past certain types within the industry would have shrugged their shoulders and accepted it. The financial services industry is of course now driven by those types.

Nonsense and subsequent time-wasting in business has never been tolerated by the customer. Those of you who think this type of nonsense is acceptable 'collateral damage' to the main thrust of driving for shareholder profit would be well advised never to forget that customers will not and should not have to put up with it.

Hopefully regulation will eventually change so fast at some point that you won't even be able to take a breath before you shrug shoulders one time too many, and it finally dawns how low the standards have slipped.

Freecall

dunstonh wrote: »

In the past, people would have shrugged their shoulders and accepted it. Nowadays, tolerance of human error seems to be lower.

As years pass by I find that I am slightly more tolerant of the errors of others but significantly less tolerant of my own.

Blue_Parrot

Blue_Parrot wrote: »

I phoned them this morning and finally (after hearing Vivaldi's Four Seasons - Spring, twice) got through to a human being, who said "It was a small blip".

Is 'small blip' code for 'stupid computer error in our favour'?

That only took 18 minutes. Quite fast, really.

The new pack from Friends Life arrived today, 20th June. Within the wording it says:

Retirement date: 18 June 2015
and
Thank you for telling us about your plans to retire.

I did not retire on Thursday, and told them that I have no plans to retire this year.

Also, the woman on the phone on Monday said the fund was worth £12,917.28, but this has turned into £12,666.17 on the paperwork.

£251.11 has disappeared, or yet more "blips"?

dunstonh

Within the wording it says:

Retirement date: 18 June 2015
and
Thank you for telling us about your plans to retire.

I did not retire on Thursday, and told them that I have no plans to retire this year.

That is the wording they use when someone asks for a current value projection. I guess the phone call was interpreted as you wanting to know what it currently is worth.

£251.11 has disappeared, or yet more "blips"?

no blips there. Markets have been in a period of decline.

agarnett

I have to ask, and not for the first time, dunstonh, why do you so often appear to act as apologist for companies like this? You surely realise it always looked very unfortunate that you seem to do something similar all the way up until the PPI scandal was finally admitted and became a total back down by banks, and now you seem to insist on doing it when it is as clear as day that the pensions industry are now failing daily to service customers correctly.

Aviva and Friends Life together are a very important segment of the industry responsible for maintaining an extraordinarily large share of the UK's private pensions. Defending their bad service is much like defending Sainsbury's or Tesco if half the milk they sold was sour before customers got it home - maybe then you'd say that customers should hurry home faster or carry their milk in refrigerated containers!

The standard of communication achieved by those who answer the phones to customers at companies like Friends Life and Aviva is right now really third rate. That's mostly because they don't have anything like a full appreciation of how pension products are supposed to work. So why they are even allowed on the phones is anyone's guess.

It is totally inexcusable to issue bits of paper with nonsensical data, or data meaningless to the customer, or ambiguous data, as a result of a request agreed during a specific customer phone call. Yet you excuse it.

The company has failed if it sends a letter like that described.

You are almost suggesting that it is up to the customer to frame the request in exact terms and then to somehow know the scope of standard letter templates used by the company and to reframe their question based on which standard template is "near enough".

I believe this simply will not do. By appearing to condone it, I feel you reduce customer expectation, and thereby continue to depress standards in the industry which sorely needs to haul itself up by its bootstraps. Why aren't you writing to encourage that? Perhaps you are simply unaware of how bad it has become?

As I think you know, I have a great deal of experience as a customer interacting with both Aviva and Friends Life pensions departments and both have been bad all year so far.

You perhaps plug in to a different stream of people when you interact as an FA and perhaps you know them and can communicate well based on mutual understanding of what is required, but seriously, it is hard work (and very timewasting) for ordinary customers to obtain useful documentation.

And a 2% reduction in just a day surely begs some question about exactly what funds are being used. Pension funds are supposed to be managed by professionals 1who have special skills necessary to grow investments, and are presumed not to be particularly vulnerable to blowing with the wind or free floating with general market trends.

Do we think it has gone down another 2% between Tuesday and today Wednesday i.e. 4% give or take the odd minor blip?

Who'd have thought the UK's foremost private pensions providers were as susceptible to disappearing funds as any Greek provider?

How many days at minus 2% do we think is normal pension fund reaction to normal market movement? Or are we in fact witnessing a crisis right now which no-one has admitted beyond the words "market decline at the moment"?

None of us signed up for this kind of volatility. Why is it now poo-poo-ed as risk we must take?

Where are the benefits of the smoothing which major pension fund managers are supposed to be able to achieve? Are FAs not able to advise on such products anymore?

RichandJ

Oh, !!!!!! garnett is back. Anyone who hasn't got him on ignore any idea what he's on about now ?

gadgetmind

I think he's struggling to get his dosage right.

dunstonh

Damn. I pressed view.

I have to ask, and not for the first time, dunstonh, why do you so often appear to act as apologist for companies like this?

Ok, lets not explain the reasons why and leave everyone in the dark.

Yet you excuse it.

Explanations are not excuses.

You are almost suggesting that it is up to the customer to frame the request in exact terms and then to somehow know the scope of standard letter templates used by the company and to reframe their question based on which standard template is "near enough".

You are asking generally low knowledge call centre staff to interpret requests from generally low knowledge consumers and get it right every time. That isnt going to happen.

And a 2% reduction in just a day surely begs some question about exactly what funds are being used.

It was four days and in the period when the FTSE fell by more 2%.

Who'd have thought the UK's foremost private pensions providers were as susceptible to disappearing funds as any Greek provider?

It may come as a surprise to you given your lack of knowledge in these things but investments will go down as well as up and if the markets go down, that means your value goes down too.

None of us signed up for this kind of volatility.

Everybody signed up for the performance they get.

Where are the benefits of the smoothing which major pension fund managers are supposed to be able to achieve?

The vast majority of funds have no smoothing. Blue Parrot does not mention investment funds held.

Are FAs not able to advise on such products anymore?

They are to people that are willing to listen and understand. Little point to people that dont want to listen though.

hayleydaley

I had the same query with them said zero pension, I phoned as I wanted to take 25% out, phoned them and explained what had happened and that I wanted to take the money out , they said sign it and send it the form back , and they will look into it, I said no way will I sign the form, showing I have nothing in the pension, told them to send new details out that was a month ago still waiting.