Additional Voluntary Contribution with Equitable Life

takethemon

hi. i was medically retired in 2002.
at that time i received a pension from my employer. i had also had an avc with equitable life worth £22000 at the time.
as i had no need of any extra income at the time i left the avc intact.
in late 2005 i saw an independent financial advisor, yorkshire investment group,by which time my fund had grown to £29000. i explained that this was an avc and the advisor said it would be better for me to take a 25%lump sum from this amount and invest the rest elsewhere. i pointed out to her that this was not allowed at the time of my retirement but she said that i would find out that the rules had changed and she said her fee would be £1000 plus vat for the advice regarding this avc pension.
as i had no experience of IFA'S or their fees i agreed.
several months later she wrote to me that as it was an avc she could offer me no advice except sort it out myself.
the £1000 fee was waved, though I paid a large fee for her advice to invest in CoFunds, which I later learned was their own in house unit trust funds.
i then received correspondence that Equitable Life sent to my ex employer saying that the avc pension should have been taken at the same time as my company pension and they would calculate the pension at the value of £22000 instead of £29000.
i phoned my ex employer and was told it was an oversight on their behalf that the AVC was not actioned and was advised " to make sure they pay you interest "
for personal reasons i did nothing until late last year,when i wrote to Equitable Life asking what the value of my fund was and what were my options. my latest statement from them in 2012 showed my investment had grown to £44000.
i received a reply from Equitable Life informing me that as it was an AVC i would have to contact my ex employer and sort it out with them.
i wrote to my ex employer,Greater Manchester Police,over 4 months ago,and not to my surprise they have not replied. indeed i have never received a headed notepaper letter from them regarding this matter.
any advice would be gratefully appreciated,especially if someone can clarify whether when i do convert into a pension whether i have to accept it based on its 2002 value and do i have to take the pension with E.L.
many thanks.


Hi. I originally posted this thread 2 years ago but received no advice.
hopefully it would catch someone's attention this second time of posting.
an update is that I waited another 8 months, meaning 12 months had passed, when I contacted Greater Manchester Police asking asking them to reply to my letter.
I received a dismissive prose saying that they are making enquiries and when they have done that they will reply to me.
that was 17 months ago! I can only assume that they are indeed being very thorough with their enquiries.
Equitable Life will not deal with me as they say they only deal with GMP.
if I was a bit more cynical I would start to think that their inaction could have something to do with the fact that prior to retiring I was foolishly a whistle-blower attempting to expose corrupt practices within the police force, allegations which I was informed that I was not entitled to know the outcome of, some 12 days after submitting my claims via letter.
considering that 4 of these days were saturdays and sundays, add another couple of days for the postman to deliver each way i can only look on in envy at the speed my allegations were dealt with compared to the way they are dealing with my pension enquiry.
despite evidence from the police computer and that of the housing department computer the matter was brushed under the carpet.
the butt of my allegation rose up the promotion ladder to chief inspector level at least.
i have not received an annual statement for over two years.
i believe this is unlawful, but as i know to my cost GMP seem to interpret the law to their own ends.
any advice would be greatly appreciated. thank you.
i am fully aware that this thread will reach police eyes.

xylophone

Try The Pensions Advisory Service?

http://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk/

xylophone

And do you need to deal with Mouchel about this matter?

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/403860/2015_02_12_Police_Pension_Administrator_Contacts_England_and_Wales.pdf

http://www.myownpension.co.uk/pages/pol_employee.html

hyubh

takethemon wrote: »

several months later she wrote to me that as it was an avc she could offer me no advice except sort it out myself.

If things really happened like that, did you ask her to refund the fee on the basis she lied when claiming to have expertise on the matter?

i then received correspondence that Equitable Life sent to my ex employer saying that the avc pension should have been taken at the same time as my company pension

If this was the old police pension scheme (PPS), that would be correct - from the original scheme regulations for AVCs:

'During the month ending on the date of his retirement, a participator is to make a pension election'

However, they go on:

'; but if the police authority are satisfied that it was not reasonably practicable for an election to be made during that period they may accept one made after retirement.'

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1991/1304/regulation/11/made

With it being well over a decade since your retirement I don't think your chances of exploiting this discretionary power are very good however.

i phoned my ex employer and was told it was an oversight on their behalf that the AVC was not actioned and was advised " to make sure they pay you interest "

It was maladministration on the police authority's part (or its agent, though I think Greater Manchester Police did its pensions admin in house in 2002) - you should raise a formal complaint ('stage 1 IDRP' or some such).

i wrote to my ex employer,Greater Manchester Police

You were a police officer, right, not a support worker? I ask because if the latter, you would have been a member of the LGPS rather than the PPS, so the responsibility would have lain elsewhere (specifically, with Tameside BC as the 'administering authority' and in-house administrator of the Greater Manchester LGPS fund).

if I was a bit more cynical I would start to think that their inaction could have something to do with the fact that prior to retiring I was foolishly a whistle-blower attempting to expose corrupt practices within the police force

I doubt it, but I wouldn't bother mentioning it - the point at issue is the maladministration of your AVC benefits, not how you left the force, or how you got caught out by an ignorant IFA, or what you had for breakfast, or...

i have not received an annual statement for over two years.

You're not due an annual statement though, are you - you should have drawn your AVC benefits 12 years ago...!

kidmugsy

The new tax year brought in the Osborne reforms which allow such stranded AVCs to be transferred to personal pensions. Hurray!

Why don't you phone a couple of SIPP providers e.g., Hargreaves Lansdown, AJ Bell, ......? They might be able to help.

takethemon

xylophone wrote: »

Try The Pensions Advisory Service?

http://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk/

thanks. I will probably take my case to the pensions ombudsman.

takethemon

xylophone wrote: »

And do you need to deal with Mouchel about this matter?

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/403860/2015_02_12_Police_Pension_Administrator_Contacts_England_and_Wales.pdf

http://www.myownpension.co.uk/pages/pol_employee.html

I am afraid I have no trust in the police and as such I would not feel comfortable with contacting Mouchel.
they send me my monthly pension advice.

hyubh

kidmugsy wrote: »

The new tax year brought in the Osborne reforms which allow such stranded AVCs to be transferred to personal pensions. Hurray!

Are you sure that applies? It's not really 'stranded', unless the legislation concerned uses a liberal definition of that term (maybe it does, though to me 'stranded' implies the AVC is orphaned despite no rules having been broken to get it into that situation)

hyubh

takethemon wrote: »

I will probably take my case to the pensions ombudsman.

You can't do that until you have gone through the scheme's internal disputes procedure. Have you?

takethemon

hyubh wrote: »

If things really happened like that, did you ask her to refund the fee on the basis she lied when claiming to have expertise on the matter?



If this was the old police pension scheme (PPS), that would be correct - from the original scheme regulations for AVCs:

'During the month ending on the date of his retirement, a participator is to make a pension election'

However, they go on:

'; but if the police authority are satisfied that it was not reasonably practicable for an election to be made during that period they may accept one made after retirement.'

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1991/1304/regulation/11/made

With it being well over a decade since your retirement I don't think your chances of exploiting this discretionary power are very good however.



It was maladministration on the police authority's part (or its agent, though I think Greater Manchester Police did its pensions admin in house in 2002) - you should raise a formal complaint ('stage 1 IDRP' or some such).



You were a police officer, right, not a support worker? I ask because if the latter, you would have been a member of the LGPS rather than the PPS, so the responsibility would have lain elsewhere (specifically, with Tameside BC as the 'administering authority' and in-house administrator of the Greater Manchester LGPS fund).



I doubt it, but I wouldn't bother mentioning it - the point at issue is the maladministration of your AVC benefits, not how you left the force, or how you got caught out by an ignorant IFA, or what you had for breakfast, or...



You're not due an annual statement though, are you - you should have drawn your AVC benefits 12 years ago...!

thanks for your reply.


the IFA waived her £1000 fee when she realised that she couldn't do anything.
I have edited my thread to insert the fact.
when she first suggested that I could take 25% of the pot in cash I told her that it wasn't allowed but she said the rules had changed since 2002.


as regards raising a complaint, that would be a pointless exercise.
I initially addressed my complaint to the Chief Constable.
I received not a reply from the chief constable, nor from his deputy, nor from one of the 6 assistant chief constables in position at that time, nor from the chief superintendent in charge of the " y " dept, the discipline and complaints dept at the time, but from a superintendent in that dept.
I thought he was taking a risk putting his name to the document but I found out that he retired some weeks after penning the later after completing his service.
so a nice little stitch up. complaint dismissed and no one there to be accountable.


with ref to the regs applicable at the time of my retirement, can you point me in the right direction to access them?


I was a police officer, and you are correct, they had their own pensions dept.


as regards an annual statement, I received one annually usually around april time until I sent my original letter which I think was December 2012.
this was sent to me by GMP after they received it from Equitable Life.
this in spite of the fact that Equitable Life sent papers to GMP in 2005 saying my pension would be based on its value when I was medically retired unfit in 2002.

takethemon

kidmugsy wrote: »

The new tax year brought in the Osborne reforms which allow such stranded AVCs to be transferred to personal pensions. Hurray!

Why don't you phone a couple of SIPP providers e.g., Hargreaves Lansdown, AJ Bell, ......? They might be able to help.

I think I will try the pensions ombudsman first and see where I am at.


thanks for your suggestion.