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Coastalwatch

Martyn1981 said:

QrizB said:

Martyn1981 said:

Wind must be close to a new record. Currently showing about 21.5GW, with the record at 21.62GW. But, demand will now be rising, so that may minimise any curtailment, and allow a bit more. Looks like the Grid likes to keep about 2.5GW to 3.5GW of FF's running.

We dropped below 2.5GW of gas briefly this afternoon, but always above 2GW, per Drax Electric Insights. At the time that was 6.25% of demand.

I don't think I've seen it that low before? The non-generating grid stability projects must be paying off!

I think FF's have gone even lower recently in the region of 2.1GW to 2.4GW. And bio-mass is low too. I suppose there is still about 5GW of nuclear spinning steam turbines, but these numbers do seem low (to me).

I assume there's a fair bit of wind curtailment, due to low demand. Wind went from 20GW yesterday to 15GW overnight, back to 20GW.

Time. Ito get my batts. 

Reckon there could be quite a rush on battery's once the VAT is lifted. Is it possible to place an order in advance just to secure what you have in mind?

QrizB

Wasn't sure if this would work best here or on the Energy board, but posting here.

I took a look at the Low Carbon Contracts dashboards this evening. The forecast dashboard shows this chart:

To give some perspective, the UK's current total annual eletricity demand is something like 260TWh. So the current contracted CfD generation will be able to meet half this demand less than a decade from now.

I think this chart only goes to AR4, so AR5, 6 etc. will add more capacity and more generation, raising the peak higher.

Martyn1981

Strange post this, so stick with me. It is about an article on iron-air battery storage deployment. Can be read as good or bad.

It's long duration storage at 100hrs, so that's nice for roles that can make economic use of such a discharge rate*. But it's 100hr as the batteries can't charge/discharge quickly, so that could be seen as a negative. Plus energy density is pretty low - ~3MW/acre.

However, if the hoped for costs come true (when scaled), then at 1/10th the cost of lithium storage, it may well find a niche. I thought I'd post this article as it lists a number of planned deployments, all 100hr, ranging from 5MW/500MWh to 15MW/1,500MWh. Hopefully that'll allow everyone to see how the economics stack up for this type of storage.

Coal State Sells Coal-Killing Iron-Air Energy Storage To Other States

Oh the irony, it burns. On the one hand, public officials in the iconic coal-producing state of West Virginia love to rant against renewable energy investing, while the other hand  has loaded up a $290 million incentive package to reel in the Massachusetts-based US energy storage startup Form Energy. The company is setting up its first factory in West Virginia, to mass produce new long duration iron-air batteries that will help kick coal out of the power generation picture all around the US.

Form claims a duration of 100 hours for its new iron-air battery, blowing long past the Energy Department’s 10-hour floor. The technology is based on “reversible rusting,” a 1970’s idea that has finally seen its day.

Iron-air batteries literally work by exposing iron to a stream of air. With an assist from an electrolyte and a membrane, the result is an electrical current and a pile of rust. Charging up the battery is simply a matter of applying an electrical current, reformulating the rust back into iron.

*Speaking of economic roles, I thought I'd mention the Tesla Megapacks for two reasons.

Firstly, to show that the 1MW/4MWh version start at $1.27m each, whilst the 2MW/4MWh version cost $1.32m, so the storage type (and therefore cost) depend upon the role it's needed for.

Secondly, to mention that Tesla has now started on the planned Chinese Megapack factory. It, like the US facility in Lathrop, is planned to scale to 40GWh (10,000 units) pa.

Tesla acquires Shanghai land for megapack battery plant

BEIJING/SHANGHAI, Dec 22 (Reuters) - Tesla (TSLA.O) has acquired land in Shanghai for a megapack battery manufacturing plant with production expected to start in the fourth quarter of 2024, Chinese state media reported on Friday.

QrizB

Martyn1981 said:

It's long duration storage at 100hrs, so that's nice for roles that can make economic use of such a discharge rate*. But it's 100hr as the batteries can't charge/discharge quickly, so that could be seen as a negative. Plus energy density is pretty low - ~3MW/acre.

I had to read that a few times before it made sense   but they're saying that the iron-air batteries are in "envoironmentally-controlled enclosures" (looking a little bt like portakabins or shipping containers) and a simgle layer of enclosures covering an acre would generate 3MW for 100h? So 300MWh/acre?

Is there any reason why they couldn't stack them (again, like portakabins or shipping containers) and double, triple or quadruple the areal energy density?

Martyn1981

I wondered exactly the same. Or at the very least, cover them with PV panels.

QrizB

Martyn1981 said:

I wondered exactly the same. Or at the very least, cover them with PV panels.

I ran the numbers on that while writing my post   In West Virginia, roughly where the battery will be and depending on what assumptions you make, an acre of solar panels will produce somewhere around 500-800MWh a year. Sure it'll help, but it's only enough to charge the battery 2-3 times.

Exiled_Tyke

If ever we wanted a major success story on moving to RE here it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/dec/27/uruguays-green-power-revolution-rapid-shift-to-wind-shows-the-world-how-its-done

It addresses a good number of sceptic's complaints and provides an excellent case study on how it's done.  Hopefully this will inspire other countries to follow and eventually put pressure on those being left behind. 

Martyn1981

Martyn1981 said:

However, if the hoped for costs come true (when scaled), then at 1/10th the cost of lithium storage, it may well find a niche. I thought I'd post this article as it lists a number of planned deployments, all 100hr, ranging from 5MW/500MWh to 15MW/1,500MWh. Hopefully that'll allow everyone to see how the economics stack up for this type of storage.

Coal State Sells Coal-Killing Iron-Air Energy Storage To Other States

Doh! Did some minor research (Googling), then completely forgot to include it.

So, I found that the round trip efficiency of these batts, seems to be 'upto 70%'. Some suggest 50%+, some 70%, so let's go with upto 70%.

I think that's perfectly acceptable for longer duration storage, which will be mopping up the cheapest leccy 'leftovers', and probably discharging during long low RE periods, where it will have a good price.

For comparison, PHS (pumped hydro storage) is about 80% efficient, but limited in deployment locations, and high infrastructure costs.

All of this leads back to that paraagraph above, where hopefully the number of planned deployments will suffice in establishing actual costs, efficiencies, and the economic role for which this type of storage will be suitable (or not).

silverwhistle

Exiled_Tyke said:

If ever we wanted a major success story on moving to RE here it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/dec/27/uruguays-green-power-revolution-rapid-shift-to-wind-shows-the-world-how-its-done

It addresses a good number of sceptic's complaints and provides an excellent case study on how it's done.  Hopefully this will inspire other countries to follow and eventually put pressure on those being left behind. 

As opposed to: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/dec/27/zero-onshore-wind-plans-submitted-in-england-since-de-facto-ban-was-lifted

Coastalwatch

Exiled_Tyke said:

If ever we wanted a major success story on moving to RE here it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/dec/27/uruguays-green-power-revolution-rapid-shift-to-wind-shows-the-world-how-its-done

It addresses a good number of sceptic's complaints and provides an excellent case study on how it's done.  Hopefully this will inspire other countries to follow and eventually put pressure on those being left behind. 

Thanks @ET, that's the most uplifting read I've consumed in a long time. I wonder if one of the TV companies could be encouraged to base a documentary upon it educating a larger % of the population who currently believe otherwise!