Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

Exiled_Tyke

May be it's time for a non-domestic battery thread.     This one is great news for the future of storage and also for Simec investors too (which have had a rough time of it with the MeyGen tidal project problems) 

https://simecatlantis.com/sae-signs-40m-contract-for-one-of-uks-largest-battery-storage-projects-at-uskmouth/

Martyn1981

zeupater said:

zeupater said:

Hi

.... just thinking of all the things that could go wrong over time with such a project    & where I'd prefer to better (as in risk mitigation!) spend public funding other than to float a fleet of 'unstable & fragile' unmanned boats to deliver decentralised energy to consumers .....

HTH-Z

Hi

... Fleshing out the background for the issues raised - the basis of concern is related to a number of published articles I read a while ago ... eg .... Yichao Liu et al 2020 J. Phys.: Conf. Ser. 1618 022049 - ( https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/1618/2/022049/pdf )

Abstract ....

"Floating Offshore Wind Turbines (FOWTs) are more prone to suffer from faults and failures than bottom-fixed counterparts due to the severe wind and wave loads typical of deep water sites. In particular, mooring line faults may lead to unacceptably high operation and maintenance costs due to the limited accessibility of FOWTs. Detecting the mooring line faults is therefore critical, but the application of Fault Detection (FD) techniques has not been investigated yet."

... which generally tend to conclude that as the tall turbines act as levers with the fulcrum being at ~sea level, the force of the wind at the top of the blades (effort) creates a considerably increased spot load on the anchoring points & lines when the wind is gusting thus creating potential failure modes related to the anchoring systems employed ... for example, there are numerous occasions where considerably more stable (shape/design) oil/gas rigs & platforms have suffered broken moorings and drifted well off station causing concerns to other assets in the general area - consider the effect of this with a rogue ~180m high floating turbine drifting/pitching/rolling in the middle of a farm consisting 10's if not 100's of still anchored and rotating ~180m high clones ....

... the worrying text in the paper referenced is that as of 2020 the claim is made that ... "the application of Fault Detection (FD) techniques has not been investigated yet." !! ... hence my comment ... " just thinking of all the things that could go wrong over time with such a project" !!!

HTH-Z -

Hiya Z. The good thing here is that we can slow walk the floating wind research and see how others get on. The UK is lucky and has a large amount of near(ish) shore, shallow waters for mono-piles, but floating WT's allow for closer install in some cases, and deployments nearer to where the leccy may be wanted, and the grid already well built out.

But other countries like the US, where the Atlantic coast isn't as good as the UK, and the Pacific coast worse again (faster/steeper shelving), then floating WT's may be the better choice. I also understand the same for Japan, who face a significant shortfall in clean RE generation due to the population v's RE potential, given they have little potential for monopile off-shore wind.

Have to admit, when floating WT's were first discussed (5+yrs ago?) I didn't think they'd be economic, but I missed the fact that they can be placed in 'ideal' locations, where monopiles can't. In fact, going back 10yrs or so, you may remember me thinking (out loud) that offshore wind was important for the UK, but I didn't think costs could get down to on-shore wind and PV levels* ...... so never say never!

*But ever larger WT's, with specialist ships for deployment, reaching higher and stronger winds, and ever higher capacity factors certainly blew my mind.

Coastalwatch

Exiled_Tyke said:

May be it's time for a non-domestic battery thread.     This one is great news for the future of storage and also for Simec investors too (which have had a rough time of it with the MeyGen tidal project problems) 

https://simecatlantis.com/sae-signs-40m-contract-for-one-of-uks-largest-battery-storage-projects-at-uskmouth/

Thanks for update on Simec, it's been a difficult time for them so good to see a way forward at Uskmouth at least.

Have to agree about non domestic battery/storage thread as surely it's development and accelerated expansion will be as important as that of both Solar and Wind in the past.

zeupater

Martyn1981 said:

Hiya Z. The good thing here is that we can slow walk the floating wind research and see how others get on. The UK is lucky and has a large amount of near(ish) shore, shallow waters for mono-piles, but floating WT's allow for closer install in some cases, and deployments nearer to where the leccy may be wanted, and the grid already well built out.

But other countries like the US, where the Atlantic coast isn't as good as the UK, and the Pacific coast worse again (faster/steeper shelving), then floating WT's may be the better choice. I also understand the same for Japan, who face a significant shortfall in clean RE generation due to the population v's RE potential, given they have little potential for monopile off-shore wind.

Have to admit, when floating WT's were first discussed (5+yrs ago?) I didn't think they'd be economic, but I missed the fact that they can be placed in 'ideal' locations, where monopiles can't. In fact, going back 10yrs or so, you may remember me thinking (out loud) that offshore wind was important for the UK, but I didn't think costs could get down to on-shore wind and PV levels* ...... so never say never!

*But ever larger WT's, with specialist ships for deployment, reaching higher and stronger winds, and ever higher capacity factors certainly blew my mind.

Hi

I think that's the crux of the point that many seem to be missing ....

Turbines located in deep offshore waters would likely be of spar design with a considerable draught, it's likely that a 200m turbine would have ~100m+ of hull below the waterline which would act to stabilise the structure and keep it near(ish) vertical in gusty conditions, placing a relatively low load on it's anchoring system.

The issue with placing floating windmills nearer shore is, as you mention, shallower waters. The seas around the UK are, for the main part, shallower than the 100m+ until you're far enough from land to to not even be aware that it's there (eg mid points of - England/France far west of English Channel and North Sea between Scotland & Norway) so shallower water options such as 'Tension Leg' & 'Semi Submersible' solutions come into play ... but these both have their own issues.

To optimise generation from HAWT (shaft facing wind) they need to face directly into the wind in both horizontal & vertical plains ... now think of a sailing yacht in high winds & how it heels (leans) away from the wind, this despite having a considerable ballast in an extended keel to counter the force on the sail/mast - this leaning results in air spilling from the sail, thus massively decreasing efficiency. To maintain efficiency the turbine tower needs to be kept upright, however, in shallow waters this means restricted draught, which like the yacht example results in a tendency to heel which can be addressed by (i) building a multi-leg platform similar to an oil rig (semi-submersible) with relatively light anchors (higher platform costs) ... or ... (ii) building an inherently unstable shallow draught turbine similar to the deep water spar design and compensate with a set of heavy duty anchors (higher seabed anchoring point costs) designed to employ line tension to improve aspect/stability ....

I'm not saying it's impossible, far from it, but the solution (and relative cost)  varies depending on location and available water depth and therefore are subject to far more complexity than simply towing a small barge with a windmill atop to it's station, dropping anchor, connecting up and expecting it to work efficiently & stay there with little attention (as many newspaper articles tend to convey!).

The reason why I looked into this some time ago was related to articles related to floating wind-farms off the coast of Portugal, which turned out to be in ~100m+ of water depth ~<20km off the coast & relatively close to port facilities for maintenance/support (another important consideration) ... of course, this was facilitated by a rapid increase in ocean depth over a relatively short distance.        

HTH - Z

Martyn1981

Not exactly a direct follow on to the floating wind chat, but this timely article sets out the expectations for 2035 for the wind industry based on what the 'experts' predict. In the opening graphic, top RHS, you'll notice an estimate of 11-25% of off-shore wind being floating, which seems reasonable, showing that even in 13yrs time, it will still be a small/growing part of the industry.

Experts Forecast Wind Power Plant Of The Future — Taller, Cheaper

Taller turbines, and their accompanying larger rotor diameters, allow for the capture of more energy. In the most-likely scenario, the experts predicted that hub height for newly installed onshore wind turbines will reach 130 meters in 2035, rather than the 115-meter forecast offered in a 2015 survey. (Each survey asked experts to look 15 years into the future, so the 2015 data offers predictions for 2030).

Experts expect plant sizes of 1,100 megawatts (MW) for fixed-bottom and 600 MW for floating offshore wind. These and many other design choices discussed in the article can support levelized cost of energy reductions of 27% (onshore) and 17%–35% (floating and fixed-bottom offshore) by 2035 compared to today. New plant designs can also enhance wind energy’s grid service, for example, via project hybridization with batteries and hydrogen production.

“Our research provides a much-needed benchmark for representing future wind technologies in power sector models,” Beiter said. “By explaining the economics behind wind energy design choices, this article addresses a critical research gap.”

Martyn1981

Crikey, Energy Numbers is showing 19.5GW for wind generation, which is 50% of demand, and exporting 2.9GW to France.

[Obviously the live data will change.]

Gridwatch needs a bigger dial, their's goes up to 15GW, but states 15.24GW (excludes embedded generation estimated at another 30%).

EVandPV

Martyn1981 said:

Crikey, Energy Numbers is showing 19.5GW for wind generation, which is 50% of demand, and exporting 2.9GW to France.

[Obviously the live data will change.]

Yeah it's blowing a hooley here and sunny too.
RE generation currently at 62.7%.

2nd_time_buyer

Not quite sure of the current state of things but Triton Knoll, Hornsea 2, and Moray East are all due to come online this year. Representing an additional 3.2 GW of capacity.

To put that in to context only 1.21 GW is required to go Back to the Future.

michaels

2nd_time_buyer said:

Not quite sure of the current state of things but Triton Knoll, Hornsea 2, and Moray East are all due to come online this year. Representing an additional 3.2 GW of capacity.

To put that in to context only 1.21 GW is required to go Back to the Future.

Lets just hope the wind speed doesn't hit 76.5 knots....

Martyn1981

2nd_time_buyer said:

Not quite sure of the current state of things but Triton Knoll, Hornsea 2, and Moray East are all due to come online this year. Representing an additional 3.2 GW of capacity.

To put that in to context only 1.21 GW is required to go Back to the Future.

Great Scott Marty - Careful what you wish for?

New 2022 DeLorean EV to be fully revealed on 31 May