Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

Martyn1981

EricMears wrote: »

Quite so - but the example quoted was for a Tesla. As previously noted, Teslas are type-approved for towing but almost all other BEVs are not.

Incidentally, I can't really see why a Tesla owner would want an extra battery. They're supposed to do up to 300 miles before recharging and have their own 'supercharger' network that is free (for early models) or reasonably priced (later ones). Even with a caravan on the back they'd probably manage 200 miles.

I thought the discussion mentioned trailers for longer range, and even the idea of incorporating a battery/trailer/caravan idea.

Also, you seemed to suggest that it couldn't be done due to cabling issues, so i was just pointing to an example.

JKenH

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I thought the discussion mentioned trailers for longer range, and even the idea of incorporating a battery/trailer/caravan idea.

The lengths people are expected to go to to overcome the impracticalities of BEVs. You have to admit that in a world of BEVs if someone invented the ICE they would be hailed a messiah. I’m all for BEVs in the right application, i.e. within travelling range of home but battery trailers - seriously? The thieves will love them.

EricMears

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Also, you seemed to suggest that it couldn't be done due to cabling issues, so i was just pointing to an example.

Not quite. I didn't say that cabling would prevent it from being done - just that the sort of cable needed would be pretty big.

mmmmikey

Really strange the way this argument on BEVs is going, both here and on the BEV deals and info thread.

Nobody as far as I can see is saying that BEVs are anything but a good thing and the future of motoring.

However, one group is saying that for various reasons the technology hasn't quite advanced to the point where it is viable for them yet. For some people the reason is that charging infrastructure isn't in place yet, but nobody is saying this is insurmountable, just that it's not there yet. Another group is pointing out there are limits in respect of towing, with only a very small number of upmarket models currently available for this. Nobody seems to be saying that these things mean that BEVs are a daft idea - just that there not there yet in terms of meeting everyone's needs.

In the meantime, joefizz is pointing out that there's more to the environmental impact of motoring than just the fuel, and is pointing out that discarding ICE cars before the end of their life is wasteful and needs factoring in. Again, not saying that BEVs are a bad thing, just that this is a significant factor. Rather than accept this point that thread has degenerated into a discussion about whether the figures are accurate which surely is missing the point altogether?

I'm really struggling to understand why what seem to be perfectly reasonable points appear to be perceived as somehow negative or in some way anti-green.

Surely you can be both green and pragmatic?

1961Nick

EricMears wrote: »

Quite so - but the example quoted was for a Tesla. As previously noted, Teslas are type-approved for towing but almost all other BEVs are not.

Incidentally, I can't really see why a Tesla owner would want an extra battery. They're supposed to do up to 300 miles before recharging and have their own 'supercharger' network that is free (for early models) or reasonably priced (later ones). Even with a caravan on the back they'd probably manage 200 miles.

It may be a case that manufacturers can sell all the BEVs they can make without having to add tow bar type approval? Another possibility is that battery cooling might not be as advanced is some brands as it is in a Tesla? Whatever the current reasons are, it’s something that will be overcome very quickly because customers won’t accept not having towing capability for very long.

I can’t see why a caravan shouldn’t share the load as it has a significant impact on the tow vehicle’s range. 30kWh of battery power might also be handy when there isn’t a nearby hook-up. If that’s not enough, V2C could add some extra kilowatts.

Hexane

JKenH wrote: »

You have to admit that in a world of BEVs if someone invented the ICE they would be hailed a messiah.

Sometime in the 18th or 19th century, after the revelations of rocket artillery learned from foreign parts, an Englishman noted that, in a world limited to (highly inaccurate and dangerous) rockets, the discoverer of such simple things as muskets and cannons would be hailed a messiah. And yet here we are, a few hundred years later, fighting our wars with turbojet powered cruise missiles and various sorts of guided bombs and rockets.

ABrass

EVs are really good at towing. Massive torque.

Towing a trailer will knacker your mpg, or kwm. This means you should be looking at higher pack sizes and you need to be able to use faster chargers to recharge along the way.

In practical terms that means of the current crop of cars Tesla model S or X are your best bet. The iPace and etron are a bit limited range wise but if you're patient they should be ok.

If you really want to tow the you should wait for the next batch of vehicles for the American market. Rivian, Tesla truck, Ford F150 electric. All will be featuring huge batteries and fast charging.

JKenH

Hexane wrote: »

Sometime in the 18th or 19th century, after the revelations of rocket artillery learned from foreign parts, an Englishman noted that, in a world limited to (highly inaccurate and dangerous) rockets, the discoverer of such simple things as muskets and cannons would be hailed a messiah. And yet here we are, a few hundred years later, fighting our wars with turbojet powered cruise missiles and various sorts of guided bombs and rockets.

I am sure we will get there one day. Don’t get me wrong I do want a BEV once someone makes a really good Picanto size one with CarPlay with a decent range I can use as a runabout. I just don’t want the inconvenience of charging en route. Like any new tech there will always be those keen to get their hands on it as soon as possible and their enthusiasm will out weigh the drawbacks. It’s when it trickles down to the mainstream that people start expect perfection.

Hopefully by the time I am too old and decrepit to drive I will have a BEV that can drive me to the hospital door, go find somewhere to park then pick me up and take me home.

JKenH

mmmmikey wrote: »

Surely you can be both green and pragmatic?

To some people that is the same as being an AGW denier.

JKenH

silverwhistle wrote: »

When they start giving away free nappies and onboard wee bottles?

When I was younger, I remember driving home non stop 300 miles from a ferry with the kids asleep in the back. I just wanted to get home - no stops to wake the kids up. With a bit of careful planning I could probably do it in a Tesla but not much else especially if I wanted to make it in 4 hours as I did.

You have a good point though as journeys at my age are now regularly interrupted by comfort breaks.