Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

1961Nick

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Morally, you should be on board with the plan already, and not making excuses. If the action involves investment in the Brazilian rainforest then that's fine, I'm not sure what your point there was.

My point is that globally we should be targeting the dollars where they have the greatest return. Allowing politicians to control the deployment of resources will result in the money being spent where it buys the most votes.

Also I don't know what hedge bets mean, we know the problem, we know the solutions, and we know we need to act. We also know that the less we do today, the more we will have to do tomorrow, and the greater the total cost.

Can't agree with the logic there Mart. The greatest cost for the UK would be if we did everything we absolutely could do and the rest of the world didn't do enough. We'd spend the money to get to net zero, and then have to spend the money again on dealing with the consequences of AGW - relocation, flood defences etc.

I'm struggling to find any depth in what you are saying, it seems to close to other arguments that are really just ways to delay action, at a time when delays are inexcuseable.

If you consider not betting the house on the toss of a coin to be shallow, that's fair enough. My outlook is more 'Hope for the best, but plan for the worst'.

Once again, I find your 1% argument morally deficient, and I remain unclear why you need to keep making it on a green and ethical thread and board.

I'm not going to waste any more time trying to help you to understand.

pile-o-stone

1961Nick wrote: »

. If I could be sure that the other 99% would act, and act fast enough, I'd be 100% onboard with the plan.

Out of interest, do you personally have any impact on National or Global initiatives to combat Global Climate Change?

I'm assuming you, and everyone else on this board, do not have this impact or influence on world events and so whether you are "100% on board" or not makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.

What we can do though is to make personal changes to reduce our own carbon footprints. In order to do this, it's interesting and informative to see what technology is available to help us - such as solar PV, Solar Thermal, heat pumps, wind turbines, etc. etc.

So how about we just get back to discussing this technology and give up on trying to argue about whether or not insignificant people like ourselves are convinced or otherwise whether GW exists, or how to combat it, or whetehr we should combat it. In the end, what is the net result of these arguments? A board full of rubbish and bad feeling among the contributors.

How about everyone just gives it a rest, deflate the egos by acknowledging that no one else cares about your own beliefs, and we all get back to posting stuff about Green and Ethical Moneysaving?

Alternatively, just create a "Let's have pointless circular arguments about world policyt that we cannot change" and stick all the carp in there?

EDIT: I have created this thread for the few people who seem to spend all day arguing on here to the detriment of everyone's enjoyment of the board.

Martyn1981

1961Nick wrote: »

My point is that globally we should be targeting the dollars where they have the greatest return. Allowing politicians to control the deployment of resources will result in the money being spent where it buys the most votes.



Can't agree with the logic there Mart. The greatest cost for the UK would be if we did everything we absolutely could do and the rest of the world didn't do enough. We'd spend the money to get to net zero, and then have to spend the money again on dealing with the consequences of AGW - relocation, flood defences etc.



If you consider not betting the house on the toss of a coin to be shallow, that's fair enough. My outlook is more 'Hope for the best, but plan for the worst'.


I'm not going to waste any more time trying to help you to understand.

Again, I see no depth nor explanations in there.

The monies at the moment should be going into RE and displacing transport and heating emissions. That's what we are doing, but we could be doing more, which would actually be more cost effective, but we can't have everything.

We will have to spend money on flood defences, relocation etc anyway, as other countries are already doing. The less we do, the more we (and everyone else) will have to spend on these costs. You should not be arguing for us to do less, you should be arguing for everyone to do more.

How do we bet the house in one go, I have no idea what these statements you keep making mean? We are spending monies annually.

We need to act, we have a moral duty to act, your acknowledgment that we currently emit 1% of the World's emissions is confirmation that we have to take responsibility (given we have 1% of the World's population), the fact 1% is small is simply a distraction, a maths trick, it does not in any way excuse us from doing our share.

And trying to justify it on the basis that others might not do their share is misleading at best, but a self fulfilling prophecy at worst if we all started to take that route/excuse.

1961Nick

pile-o-stone wrote: »

Out of interest, do you personally have any impact on National or Global initiatives to combat Global Climate Change?

I'm assuming you, and everyone else on this board, do not have this impact or influence on world events and so whether you are "100% on board" or not makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.

What we can do though is to make personal changes to reduce our own carbon footprints. In order to do this, it's interesting and informative to see what technology is available to help us - such as solar PV, Solar Thermal, heat pumps, wind turbines, etc. etc.

So how about we just get back to discussing this technology and give up on trying to argue about whether or not insignificant people like ourselves are convinced or otherwise whether GW exists, or how to combat it, or whetehr we should combat it. In the end, what is the net result of these arguments? A board full of rubbish and bad feeling among the contributors.

How about everyone just gives it a rest, deflate the egos by acknowledging that no one else cares about your own beliefs, and we all get back to posting stuff about Green and Ethical Moneysaving?

Alternatively, just create a "Let's have pointless circular arguments about world policyt that we cannot change" and stick all the carp in there?

Isn't "Green, ethical, energy issues in the news (last 2 weeks)" pretty much what we are discussing?

pile-o-stone

1961Nick wrote: »

Isn't "Green, ethical, energy issues in the news (last 2 weeks)" pretty much what we are discussing?

Do you think other people are interested in your argument? After all the pages and pages you all post, has anything changed? I think you all need to ask yourselves if this is a good use of your time.

1961Nick

pile-o-stone wrote: »

....... I think you all need to ask yourselves if this is a good use of your time.

Good point, I could use the time to change the gas bottles on my patio heaters.:D

(Only jesting Mart.)

JKenH

pile-o-stone wrote: »

Out of interest, do you personally have any impact on National or Global initiatives to combat Global Climate Change?

I'm assuming you, and everyone else on this board, do not have this impact or influence on world events and so whether you are "100% on board" or not makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.

What we can do though is to make personal changes to reduce our own carbon footprints. In order to do this, it's interesting and informative to see what technology is available to help us - such as solar PV, Solar Thermal, heat pumps, wind turbines, etc. etc.

So how about we just get back to discussing this technology and give up on trying to argue about whether or not insignificant people like ourselves are convinced or otherwise whether GW exists, or how to combat it, or whetehr we should combat it. In the end, what is the net result of these arguments? A board full of rubbish and bad feeling among the contributors.

How about everyone just gives it a rest, deflate the egos by acknowledging that no one else cares about your own beliefs, and we all get back to posting stuff about Green and Ethical Moneysaving?

Alternatively, just create a "Let's have pointless circular arguments about world policyt that we cannot change" and stick all the carp in there?

EDIT: I have created this thread for the few people who seem to spend all day arguing on here to the detriment of everyone's enjoyment of the board.

Well said. We aren’t policy makers and the type of comments on here would be better directed at those who do dictate policy both here and around the world.

There are some very useful individual threads on how we can deploy such technologies which include feedback from those with the technology in place which are thankfully free from posts trying to score points.

Perhaps more emphasis on technology and less campaigning/moralising would reduce the acrimony but maybe the “Green, ethical energy issues” thread has run its course.

To paraphrase one of our politicians:

this thread is a dead thread .....this thread is a disgrace.

pile-o-stone

JKenH wrote: »

Well said. We aren’t policy makers and the type of comments on here would be better directed at those who do dictate policy both here and around the world.

There are some very useful individual threads on how we can deploy such technologies which include feedback from those with the technology in place which are thankfully free from posts trying to score points.

Perhaps more emphasis on technology and less campaigning/moralising would reduce the acrimony but maybe the “Green, ethical energy issues” thread has run its course.

To paraphrase one of our politicians:

this thread is a dead thread .....this thread is a disgrace.

Literally could not have said it better. Hopefully you'll now stop your part in it as your contributions on your heat pump experiences are of far more interest and help to people than your views on global warming. :beer:

pile-o-stone

https://www.energylivenews.com/2019/09/27/coal-plummets-to-record-low-level-as-renewable-energy-grows/

"The increase in renewable energy generation in Britain has helped push the share of coal to the lowest level since the Industrial Revolution.

Coal accounted for only 0.6% of electricity production from April to June 2019, according to latest statistics from BEIS.

The share of renewable energy, however, rose to 35.5% of the UK’s total power production in the second quarter of this year – an increase from 32% during the same period in 2018.

Overall, green energy was up by 9.9%, with production increasing from 24.6TWh to 27.1TWh over the course of a year.

Coal production, however, fell to a new record low of 0.5 million tonnes during the second quarter of 2019 – 25% lower than the same period last year as a result of falling demand for coal for power generation and mine closures."

pile-o-stone

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-29/saudi-arabia-starts-offering-loans-to-develop-renewable-energy

"Saudi Arabia will start offering loans for renewable energy projects and manufacturers of renewable-energy components as the kingdom seeks to diversify its economy away from crude oil.


The 105 billion-riyal ($28 billion) Saudi Industrial Development Fund opened applications for the program, called Mutjadeda, on Sunday. The program will give loans of as much as 1.2 billion riyals, depending on a company’s ownership, targeting renewable-energy component manufacturers as well as independent production projects. The fund will also offer financing for firms in other sectors that want to start using such energy."