Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

EricMears

Without taking sides on the issue, my rhetorical question was really just to demonstrate the inconsistencies in government policies.

EricMears

Martyn1981 wrote: »

..... but David Cameron is still pushing hard for it!

David Who ? Didn't he retire from public life ?

Martyn1981

EricMears wrote: »

David Who ? Didn't he retire from public life ?

Yes, in the UK, but no as regards the US!

David Cameron laments 'painfully slow' fracking progress in UK

David Cameron has told US oil executives of his frustration that the UK has failed to embrace fracking despite his best efforts, and hit out at green groups for being “absolutely obsessed” with blocking new fossil fuel extraction.

His bullish pro-fracking comments at a US oil industry event this week came almost 12 years since Britain’s former prime minister hugged a husky to burnish his green credentials.

“I passionately believe that there is big potential for fracking and unconventional gas in Britain, which has some shale reserves that could make a real difference,” Cameron told the American Fuel and Petrochemicals Manufacturers’ annual conference in San Antonio.

Cameron compared the tens of thousands of shale wells drilled in the US with around 10 in Europe, which he said was pathetic.

EricMears

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Yes, in the UK, but no as regards the US!

David Cameron laments 'painfully slow' fracking progress in UK

I'm sure the U.S. public will find his views as (un)interesting as I do

We are talking of the same chap who announced "I'm not a quitter" just before he lost the referendum so quit !

GreatApe

Fracking has helped the western world much more than anyone could have realised.

Saving probably in the region of $5+ trillion flowing to OPEC and Russia

It has also resulted in more manufacturing coming back to the USA and lower carbon emissions as natural gas displaced coal.

So whatever anyone thinks of UK fracking its hard to argue USA fracking wasn't a massive massive positive for the western world

Fracking in other continents can achieve similar results.
In China and Europe it would displace coal and imported Russian gas.
In India/africa It would displace poverty

I wish the UK Fracking industry success.
If we are able to produce just 1/10th what the Americans do it would be a tremendous success

Martyn1981

GreatApe wrote: »

Fracking has helped the western world much more than anyone could have realised.

I hadn't realised that!

GreatApe wrote: »

Saving probably in the region of $5+ trillion flowing to OPEC and Russia

FF gas, is FF gas, FF oil is FF oil. There is no 'saving', just different recipients of FF income.

GreatApe wrote: »

It has also resulted in more manufacturing coming back to the USA and lower carbon emissions as natural gas displaced coal.

Has it? Savings on CO2 from reducing coal is great, savings by displacing coal with gas, not so great, as it just creates a false win and can distract from the real need, which is to reduce FF use. RE is now cheaper than gas in the US.

GreatApe wrote: »

So whatever anyone thinks of UK fracking its hard to argue USA fracking wasn't a massive massive positive for the western world

Actually it's really easy to argue against US fracking and any benefits to other countries.

GreatApe wrote: »

Fracking in other continents can achieve similar results.

No it can't. US fracking is struggling, despite it also producing shale oil. In the UK there won't be shale oil, and the economics of shale gas are now looking extremely poor v's the latest RE contract prices.

Some European countries have already banned fracking. Poland has (supposedly) some of the very best European shale gas reserves, but the fracking industry collapsed and failed there.

GreatApe wrote: »

In China and Europe it would displace coal and imported Russian gas.

Too late. China and Europe are already reducing their coal consumption by rolling out RE. Conventional gas from Russia (which is a negligible contribution in the UK) is almost certainly better than frack gas in terms of CO2 and pollution.

GreatApe wrote: »

In India/africa It would displace poverty.

All arguments that claim FF consumption (going forward) helps with poverty have been found to be untrue. India specifically has argued against the benefits of FF burning v's poverty, and Africa has some of the very best PV generation potential in the world - given that PV generation is already the cheapest (by far) form of generation in sun rich nations, they are well placed to take manufacturing work (and jobs) from around the world as energy becomes an ever greater percentage of overall manufacturing costs.

GreatApe wrote: »

I wish the UK Fracking industry success.

As it's only a distraction from the need to reduce FF gas consumption (RE for leccy, better insulation for space heating, heat pumps for space heating, and bio-gas), and is economically questionable now, I see little point in supporting an unnecessary industry.

The only UK benefit might be in balance of trade, by importing less gas, but there will be no cost savings as UK frack gas will be so small, that it will have next to no impact on the European gas price.

GreatApe wrote: »

If we are able to produce just 1/10th what the Americans do it would be a tremendous success

It would be a miracle, as would 1/100th.

They have more land, more land per capita, better shale reserves, better shale economics (thanks to shale oil), lower environmental standards, higher energy demand per capita, resistance to a move away from FF's.


Lastly, fracking is extremely unpopular in the UK and Europe.

In the UK according to the 24th quarterly survey:-

support for
fracking - 16%
nuclear - 35%
renewables - 79%
off-shore wind - 79%
on-shore wind - 74%
solar - 84%

In Europe, at least the UK, Germany, France and Norway, fracking has little to no support, please see table 8.

EricMears

Martyn1981 wrote: »

It would be a miracle, as would 1/00th.

1/00th would truly be a miracle ! (anything divided by zero translates to "infinity" )

GreatApe

April 2018 prediction US EIA

Shale oil 6.95 Mbpd
Shale gas 66.1 bcf/d (equivalent to 11.45 MBPD of oil)

So close to 18.5 mbpde of combined shale output.

Yet you still have nonsense about an industry losing money or being a fake scam or production about to collapse. All lefty propaganda. US shale gas has been one of the most important inventions of the last ten years. Sure facebook is great and all but shale gas saved the west $5+ trillion dollars going to the Mullas and dictators of the middle east and Russia.

Martyn1981

GreatApe wrote: »

In some quarters vaccinating children is also seen as dangerous and wrong. The power of fear mongering ignorance...

That's fake misdirection, just like all your shale claims, and arguments that buying oil or gas of a UK company saves us money, no it just changes the payee.

Remember, you used the same arguments regarding 'the poor' in the past with me, when you claimed coal was good for poverty, but that's also a myth put about by the FF industry.

Shale oil, or shale gas, is just FF's, the planet can't cope with a fraction of existing reserves, let alone creating more.

FF's are dead and buried, the worst thing we can do is dig em up just to cremate them.

Care to remove any suggestion that I or my comments support an argument opposed to childhood vaccination?

Martyn1981

GreatApe wrote: »

Some European countries have already banned fracking. Poland has (supposedly) some of the very best European shale gas reserves, but the fracking industry collapsed and failed there.

That's just propaganda language.
They never had a shale industry for it to collapse. A well or two isn't an industry.

North American firms quit shale gas fracking in Poland

Two North American energy firms have ended their shale gas fracking operations in Poland.

Talisman Energy of Canada and the US oil company Marathon said they were pulling out of what is seen as potentially one of the largest sources of shale gas in Europe.

Marathon said it decision was based on "unsuccessful attempts to find commercial levels of hydrocarbons".

Don't forget, we are trying to move away from FF's and CO2, not find more, and the US shale gas industry has not improved GHG emissions, only CO2 emissions, as the emissions of methane to the atmosphere have negated any CO2 savings.