Stigmatising of people on benefits

lisyloo

Yes you're completely right sue, not everything can be insured.
Savings is another method of contingency and financial planning but only if you have a trustworthy partner.

Those who cannot work should be treated with compassion and I don't like them tarred with the same brush as those who simply don't want to.
I think most people do know that this distinction exists.

wotsthat

I think there should be some stigma associated with claiming benefits to encourage people to avoid choices that lead to claiming and to ensure when people do need help it's for the minimum length of time.

There's little or no stigma at the present time. In some ways claiming benefits is little more than a sport where people adjust behaviour to ensure entitlement i.e. salary sacrifice to fall into tax credit territory, large pension payments to fall under the child benefit cap, etc.

At the poorer end people are faced with high marginal tax rates for working relatively low hours which is a perverse incentive for creating non-dependence on the state.

Work is good for people, it improves their mental health, widens social circles, provides self esteem and, most importantly, puts money in the pocket. If perfectly able people are able to choose to throw themselves at the mercy of the taxpayer instead of working (or working more) then the benefits system is too generous and people will never realise the opportunities that work brings.

SingleSue

Could I just pick up on part of your comment wotsthat? Don't worry, not having a go but to agree with it!

I absolutely loved working and all that brought with it and when I had to stop it all to look after my lovely but disabled two younger ones, I actually cried, I was distraught at having to give it all up, all that hard work building a career and making a comfortable lifestyle down the drain.

You hit the nail on the head completely regarding self esteem issues and a wider social circle as my once very wide social circle has dwindled to next to nothing, I have felt isolated and my self esteem plummeted to an all time low.

Having to rely on benefits has been soul destroying for me, a real confidence sapper and I just cannot understand why anyone would actually choose this lifestyle although there are plenty who do.

wotsthat

SingleSue wrote: »

Having to rely on benefits has been soul destroying for me, a real confidence sapper and I just cannot understand why anyone would actually choose this lifestyle although there are plenty who do.

I'd feel the same having to totally rely on benefits (despite being someone that dramatically adjusts behaviour to minimise tax/ increase benefits).

IMO one of the problems in this country isn't a lack of opportunity but an inability to recognise and take opportunities when they come along. It takes some gumption and foresight to take a job if, in the first instance, peers are getting as much money for not working.

I'd rather give able people less money in benefits and invest more in getting them off benefits.

ukcarper

Generali wrote: »

Plus all medical bills paid.

Are you saying all single people on benefits only get enough for a shared room in a house?

If they are under 35 yes the point I'm trying to make is yes benefit bill need to be cut but blanket cuts aren't the ans.

If they were a couple with 2 kids they would have £152 after housing and council tax another kid would give them another £67 almost as much as a single adult.

lisyloo

wotsthat wrote: »

It takes some gumption and foresight to take a job if, in the first instance.

I think they need some help.
I don't mean carrot/incentive/motivation, I mean that some of them need help in terms of both self-esteem and skills.

I don't think the current system e.g. job centers, help people very much if at all at the moment, they are all about stick. I'm not against stick but it's not very effective where people lack basic skills.
The problem is that helping people does need proper investment.

wotsthat

lisyloo wrote: »

I think they need some help.
I don't mean carrot/incentive/motivation, I mean that some of them need help in terms of both self-esteem and skills.

I don't think the current system e.g. job centers, help people very much if at all at the moment, they are all about stick. I'm not against stick but it's not very effective where people lack basic skills.
The problem is that helping people does need proper investment.

I don't like sticks either. I'm thinking more about squeezing and nudging because the potential for unintended negative consequences is severe.

There's also going to be some where it's going to be a waste of money investing because they just don't want to work and no-one wants to employ them. Not sure what happens to them.

lostinrates

lisyloo wrote: »

I do have compassionate for those who fall on hard times, but don't agree with the above statement.
Anyone who's done proper financial planning and covered themselves for dealth, illness, accident and redundancy should not find themselves in that situation.
I realise it's possible to be down on your luck before you've have time to get established and save up and take out insurance, but why are most people findind themselves not covered???

I was twenty four when I became the 'victim' of complex, life threatening neurological illness. This progresses and regresses and twists and turns. Its no longer imminently life threatening, but I've been in danger of losing my sight for the last two years, I get dulled hearing quite a lot. I sleep like a cat.....for more hours than people can believe then wanting to do something. I have developed further complications ( neuroendological ill health).

Twenty four doesn't give many people the chance to get themselves on their feet, established, take out insurance. Add changes to the way people pay for tuition, the way people need to save for homes and pressure on pension planning etc......

I was incredibly lucky to be one of the self prepared.
I am considering applying for pip, after over a decade of self supporting, husband supporting and benefactor involvement with medical care. Again, I am one of the very, very lucky ones. Benefits and NHs would not TOUCH the care I have had, and if have no doubt I would not be here without that care and investment. Practically I see an argument for that outcome, selfishly I'm glad I was lucky.

dekoder

There is no argument that the welfare system is designed badly.
My wife being pregnant with our second child I recently started wondering is it worth for both of us to work and pay childcare for two kids. After checking benefits website it turns out if we both work part time we would be better off by £200 a month than working full time and paying for childcare.
Adding the fact you get to spend more time with kids the decision is very easy...

lisyloo

Twenty four doesn't give many people the chance to get themselves on their feet, established, take out insurance.

I agree, I was referring to people who've been working 10, 20, 30 years etc. who've had time to save and take out insurance.
Of course it's much harder for students coming out of university now who have debts, but that's completely different to someone who's been working 25 years and has no mortgage to pay.

Add changes to the way people pay for tuition, the way people need to save for homes and pressure on pension planning etc......

We all know that some people can NOT save.
I am saying that those can save plan financially - should.
It's great to hear you took responsibility and were prepared and the benefits of having done that are much greater than falling on the state where you'd receive patchy and inferior care.