MoneySaving Poll: Should the UK remain a member of the European Union?

BernardM

On the BBC QT panel a few weeks ago, Brian May and Nigel Farage could see clearly that the debate to come on EU membership amongst the mainstream political parties as a whole will be unfair and one-sided towards remaining in, as there is a bipartisan policy on the EU.

It's how the debate will take place and if there is balanced coverage and how the public will be influenced by the media. It will as Brian predicted be a very unfair debate.

sillygoose

Mark_Beech wrote: »

When discussing the issue of the EU I usually simply ask "give me one reason why we should stay in?"
For me (as a wiser? 61 year old fart) there are nothing but negatives:
The Common Agricultural Policy (a disaster)
The Common Fisheries Policy (everyone else fishing our waters)
Immigration (free movement of labour means we can do nothing about the millions coming to the EU - yes millions - 4 million in the last decade)
Trade - the UK is the biggest market for other EU countries' goods - the forecast is that by the end of this decade the UK will only export 15% of its goods to EU countries. Do we really think that the Germans will stop selling us Audis, Mercs and BMWs if we pull out? I don't think so.
Stupid rules. OK some of the legislation is fine - but limiting vacuum cleaners to 1600w and banning incandescent lightbulbs?!
Overblown Human Rights Legislation. The EU Convention on Human Rights preventing us expelling terrorists.
Legislation on emissions which have resulted in massive increases in energy costs - which in turn have resulted in 30,000 deaths of the elderly from hypothermia every year.
I could go on.
We are not like Norway and will not (as they do) still have to comply with many EU rules even as a non member. They are a country of only 5 million people and will always be the weaker partner. We are a country of 60 million people. If we pull out we will still trade in exactly the same way with the EU as we always have - because the balance of trading "power" is with us. We will still holiday in Europe ..... we will still be "Europeans" because we are still physically IN Europe. We just won't be hidebound be thousands of ludicrous laws and regulations - many of which work against our best interests. We will be able to fish in our own waters and catch the fish that the Spaniards and French and others have been "entitled" to - and the levels of fish stocks will probably be allowed to recover.
Any positives anyone?

As another person who remembers the 'before' world and preferred it I generally agree with what you say above. But still the question remains and perhaps one of the younger 'stay in' voters can actually answer it. Namely "why stay in?"

rinabean

happyinflorida wrote: »

Also where have all our jobs gone?

We used to have a lot of jobs - they have disappeared, my son has never had a job - he's 23 and cannot find one.

Right, so I guess he finished school or college and looked for full time work in the past 5 years, or university so in the past 2 years. I don't think that's when we joined the EU, rather I think that that's when the Tories got in! They have supported workfare (ie taking up work an actual, waged worker would have had to do), asked companies to provide fake 0 hour contract jobs for the sake of statistics. Their policies are not anything to do with the EU. At least in the EU you can more easily look for work in other european countries

I find the poll interesting, it seems that at least on this site only old people are against the EU. Why? Nostalgia (for productivity? but that's the fault of the british bankers and the british politicians who do their bidding, not Brussels. For more jobs? that was because everyone was dead...)? Long term hatred of Germany? I can't think of any EU policies that target old people or anything like that

BernardM

http://www.caef.org.uk/ Lots of information here about the EU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05tvvk1

Mr Scargill educates us on why the crisis that we are now going through is being caused by globalisation and membership of the European Union and if people don't understand that, then they don't understand politics.

The European Union was created by the enemies of the working class including Churchill who wanted to see a United States of Europe.

It is no accident that the strongest economy in Europe is a country outside
of the European Union, in Norway and not in any country within it.

lean&mean

Asking the question now is a bit meaningless. The whole point of what David Cameron is working on is to renegotiate the relationship so that when we do finally get to vote we know what the terms of membership are.

That said, I find it quite encouraging how many people think we should stay, but is that because of fear of what the alternative is, or because people genuinely believe we're better part of the EU than going it alone.

kehall

Asking the question now is a bit meaningless. The whole point of what David Cameron is working on is to renegotiate the relationship so that when we do finally get to vote we know what the terms of membership are.

I don't disagree in the timing, but anyone with any sense can read between the headlines - the point is he cannot renegotiate the most salient problem points at all as they're sacrosanct, fundamental parts of EU membership and no other member will agree to another being excepted. All he can do is stick a little bit of cotton wool around the hammer, it'll still hurt us if we aren't back in complete control of our own country, policies, laws.

Other than there being some 'political vanity' to being a 'member of the EU' I really don't see what real tangible benefits it brings...

I agree with sillygoose, perhaps one of the proponents and younger voters in this poll would like to actually give some real reasons why they think we should stay in the EU and how they outweigh the benefits of leaving, on a long term basis?

sillygoose

lean&mean wrote: »

Asking the question now is a bit meaningless. The whole point of what David Cameron is working on is to renegotiate the relationship so that when we do finally get to vote we know what the terms of membership are.

That said, I find it quite encouraging how many people think we should stay, but is that because of fear of what the alternative is, or because people genuinely believe we're better part of the EU than going it alone.

But why? why? why? is it some big secret?.. no one will tell me!

[Deleted User]

The EU will be reformed only if and when it's good for the Germans. At the moment they have no reason to change: Germany is going relatively strong and the Euro is low, so that they can export their goods and services. If the UK left the EU, what would they lose? Yes, they would lose a bit of export to Britain, but in return many financial institutions would move from the City to Frankfurt.

BernardM

http://www.caef.org.uk/d133germany.html

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-155b-THE-EU-ANTI-SOCIALIST-AND-ANTI-DEMOCRATIC#.VWlOQkY3Rkg

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/05/27/uk-trade-eu-usa-idUKKBN0OC1L620150527

http://strongerunions.org/2015/05/29/ttip-european-parliament-fight-moves-on/

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/30848-senator-sessions-takes-a-bold-step-tells-the-truth-about-the-tpp

http://portside.org/2015-05-20/trans-pacific-partnership-threat-global-health

http://morningstaronline.co.uk/a-4a69-Star-comment-EU-reveals-its-contempt#.VNX_my6Dhkh

http://nationalcan.ning.com/video/ttip-regulatory-cooperation-a-threat-to-democracy?xg_source=msg_mes_network

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/linda-kaucher/eu%27s-giant-and-secretive-deregulation-blitz

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ttip-1m-protestors-sign-petition-against-controversial-eu-us-trade-deal-1477958


http://www.caef.org.uk/d140edtrl.html

woodville_2

What is so sad about this poll is that the older voters are significantly more opposed to EU membership than younger voters. Any logic - no, not really, other that they don't see it benefiting them from a personal perspective and they probably have a a nasty xenophobic streak in them.
EU membership is for the future and will benefit the future generations - not this one. So all you selfish old gits who would rather not be in the EU (but happily take cheap holidays in Spain) - wake up and smell the coffee. Amazingly this is not about you, but about future generations.
And by the way, I'm 63 and I am absolutely convinced that the UK must remain in the EU. Without it we have a pretty grim future and most importantly, we owe it to our kids.