Is my dad being led into a SCAM?

printerruss

agarnett wrote: »

We already learned that the reason this particular pension was unhappily moved in the first place was because of how poorly it appeared to be performing at Phoenix Life. We must ask whether that apparently poor performance was itself a kind of scam. Were Phoenix sorry to let the Transfer Value go? Or did it suit their agenda?

Hi Agarnett
I also have a With Profits with Phoenix and when inquiring about my lack of a statement the girl on the end of the phone told me I could move my money if I wanted to which struck me as strange as at no time did I mention that and I would have thought they would want me to stay in, to be honest I felt I was being encouraged.
What did you mean about their agenda?

michael7941

**UPDATE**

First i would just like to Thank everybody who has given me advice in this thread, it was really helpful!

I sat in on the meeting between the so called adviser and my dad on Tuesday and thank god that i did!

She had come to show him the a new investment opportunity for his pension, which turned out to be a Forex Managed PAMM Account with FX Perpetual. Who are owned by Stargate Capital Management.

She had a booklet on the company and was giving the full sales pitch, as i expected she was VERY misleading on some aspects and completely clueless about some other parts of the investment..

The sheet that she was claiming showed the past performance of FX perpetual was a flyer from their website with a load of numbers in a table showing monthly returns since 2007. With YTD returns ranging from 14% up to 131.19% !!!!!

However If you look under the table at the top it states that those figures above are a simulation and no actual trades have taken place?!
When i questioned this she basically couldn't answer me.. She was telling him in no uncertain terms that they were the company records of returns.

She then said that Avalon would not let him invest in this through them because they "dont like" this sort of investment so was trying to get him to move another company called The Lifetime SIPP. Who would let him. Again i questioned this and she just kept saying oh they just dont like investments in that area.

She said The account would be managed by Knightsbridge, what would they even be doing? If the account is run by FX Perpetual, why does somebody need to manage it?

Here's what i asked her, thanks to jamesd for the question prompts-

Are you actually a financial advisor?
- "No, i used to be one but.. Blah blah" basically she now works for herself and represents companies with investments who want to get people to invest. I don't believe she was ever an IFA

What financial adviser do you use, who are they and whats their details?
- "Well we i use a number of different investors so.." Then she tried to think of one..all she could remember was Duncan something... SHE DIDNT EVEN KNOW HIS SECOND NAME! So basically she couldn't name ONE financial adviser to me.

Then she started saying, because this investment is so similar to the one last time, to save money he doesnt need to use an IFA this time because its basically the same thing.." I couldn't believe she was saying this!
I questioned the lack of professional liability etc doing it that way and she then started saying well if you wanted to i could put you in touch with an IFA but it will cost you again. I dont know how she plans on doing this as 5 minutes previous she couldn't even name one!!

(FYI the Last investment fell through because phoenix took too long to release the money, LUCKILY)

Why did you offer him unregulated investments?
- she tried to claim he was in the 250,000 liquid assets and sophisticated investors bracket, he is definitely not, she showed me her workings which had massively over estimated the value of his 2 houses, which both still have mortgages, and classes his life insurance as 100,000 towards the 250k.

After this she then went on to say all regulated means is the government make more money from it. Basically came out with a load of waffle, again!


I could go on to explain all the bad points and clauses ive already seen in the investment booklet that she "forgot" to mention but there probably isn't any point.
After seeing and listening to her, there is no way i will let her manage anything for my dad. She knew nothing in depth, and had basically read the booklet beforehand and then lied through her teeth to try and sell it to us.

My question now is where do we go from here? My initial thoughts are to go and speak to a reputable, well recommended IFA and see what they suggest?

What do you guys think?

gadgetmind

Please send your write up to the FCA! Even if what she's up to isn't a scam (simulated forex!) then she's providing regulated advice without being authorised.

atush

Well first I would speak with Avalon, make sure the money is there, and put a hold of some sort on it until you get back to them (in case someone tries to move it saying they are your father).

Then look for an IFA via unbiased.co.uk, or call the previous provider and see if they will take the money back into their plan.

And yes do inform the authorities of this, give them a copy of your notes and a link to this thread.

dunstonh

Refer it to the FCA financial crime team.

I don't believe she was ever an IFA

You can check the FSA register online. It holds records back to 2001. You can search by name.

Why did you offer him unregulated investments?
- she tried to claim he was in the 250,000 liquid assets and sophisticated investors bracket, he is definitely not, she showed me her workings which had massively over estimated the value of his 2 houses, which both still have mortgages, and classes his life insurance as 100,000 towards the 250k.

The FCA have a different view for unregulated investments. Sophisticated would indicate someone who was an ex adviser/trader/dealer or professional investor (very active over a long term - more trading than investing).

gadgetmind

I'm surprised they didn't push a HNWI declaration across the desk at the start of the meeting, which is what one IFA once did with me!

TH1878

Name and Shame...

I've sure the collective mind of this forum will be able to find her credentials (or lack thereof) fairly quickly.

xylophone

How old is your father? When will he wish to access his pension?

Is a SIPP the right product for him? If it is, is the Avalon SIPP the right product for him?

An Independent Financial Adviser who is qualified to advise on pensions might be his best port of call.

https://www.unbiased.co.uk/

jamesd

michael7941 wrote: »

she tried to claim he was in the 250,000 liquid assets and sophisticated investors bracket, he is definitely not, she showed me her workings which had massively over estimated the value of his 2 houses, which both still have mortgages, and classes his life insurance as 100,000 towards the 250k.

A person's home and money only available at retirement are excluded from counting towards the high net worth amount. Sophisticated investor is a different test and unless he's made a habit of running his own business, workin in financial services or investing in startup companies he probably isn't one.

michael7941 wrote: »

Forex Managed PAMM Account with FX Perpetual. Who are owned by Stargate Capital Management.

foreign exchange trading is one of the very high risk ways to trade that effectively guarantees that naive people will rapidly lose all of their money to the trading firm. That will be why she was pitching it, high commission payments for roping in another sucker.

michael7941 wrote: »

She then said that Avalon would not let him invest in this through them because they "dont like" this sort of investment so was trying to get him to move another company called The Lifetime SIPP. Who would let him. Again i questioned this and she just kept saying oh they just dont like investments in that area.

They wouldn't like investments in that area for good reason! They know that their customers would lose their money.

michael7941 wrote: »

Here's what i asked her, thanks to jamesd for the question prompts-

Are you actually a financial advisor?
- "No, i used to be one but.. Blah blah" basically she now works for herself and represents companies with investments who want to get people to invest. I don't believe she was ever an IFA

What financial adviser do you use, who are they and whats their details?
- "Well we i use a number of different investors so.." Then she tried to think of one..all she could remember was Duncan something... SHE DIDNT EVEN KNOW HIS SECOND NAME! So basically she couldn't name ONE financial adviser to me.

Then she started saying, because this investment is so similar to the one last time, to save money he doesnt need to use an IFA this time because its basically the same thing.." I couldn't believe she was saying this!
I questioned the lack of professional liability etc doing it that way and she then started saying well if you wanted to i could put you in touch with an IFA but it will cost you again. I dont know how she plans on doing this as 5 minutes previous she couldn't even name one!!

No regulated financial adviser with a shred of working brain would touch this one in this situation. Probably not even for a multi-millionaire customer.

michael7941 wrote: »

Why did you offer him unregulated investments?

After this she then went on to say all regulated means is the government make more money from it. Basically came out with a load of waffle, again!

Regulated investments protect people from her offering them ways to rapidly lose all of their money.

michael7941 wrote: »

My question now is where do we go from here? My initial thoughts are to go and speak to a reputable, well recommended IFA and see what they suggest?

A local financial adviser found on the unbiased.co.uk site would be a way better move than paying any attention at all to her.

The_Pensions_Regulator

The Pensions Regulator is the UK regulator of work-based pensions and we’re working with the pensions industry, Government, other regulators and law enforcement agencies to stamp down on pension scams through a combination of education, disruption and enforcement.

Our ‘Scorpion’ campaign material provides information on how to recognise a pension scam and can be found on our website.

If you suspect something is a scam please report this to Action Fraud.