Is it really that hard?

ukcarper

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Ahhh iPhones. No one ever had anything before the iPhone.

Well, apart from a tin bath and last months hand me down newspaper to wipe their arises on.

No one smoked. No one drank. No one went out. Fish and chips wrapped in the old newspaper? Codswallap - no one ever bought a takeaway. No one rented a VCR (or a video to play in it)...nor a TV..... The stackable hifi is a mere figment of the imagination.... record shops never sold a single record (no wonder Our Price went bust). Draft excluders were disguised as catologues....clearly no one ever bough anything on credit from the Little woods catalogue.

Pubs, Discotheques....no one ever went inside of one, they were mere tax shelters....afterall, no one ever went out.....

......they were far too busy welding the latest hole in the 600 year old tin bath.

On your high horse again then. Of course all those things were available and after a few years of marriage I had some of them. But I made the decision at 20 to get married and buy a house, from that point I save all my money no holidays records etc we used to go out on a Saturday a quite night in the pub with a few friends no rounds buy our own drinks. I know you find this hard to believe but it was a sacrifice we were prepared to make. I did have a car which I needed for work my wife did not get a car until we had been married about 8 years.

lisyloo

I grew up in the 70s.
No we didn't have takeaways except the occasional fish and chips.
We only had one car and one TV and one (tent/caravan) UK holiday per year.
No drinking, smoking or going out.
Hand me down clothes.

One big difference was that credit was not widely available. Yes there were catalogues, but people didn't buy stuff on credit.

I never felt poor or deprived at all (apart from when the clothes didn't fit to the point that people made fun of you).

princeofpounds

You know, on a more general point the malaise for the young today is pretty specific.


I think very few people would say that most things in life are harder. Indeed they are not. Consumer goods - anything from computers to foreign holidays - are generally much, much cheaper.


Alcoholic drinks aside due to tax - nightlife is more expensive perhaps, but fairly discretionary.


Unemployment was a real problem after the financial crisis, but that has improved in the last couple of years (even though less so for the young, especially the low-skilled).


Really, the main issue is simply the cost of housing. Whether prices or rents.


The problem is, that's really the #1 necessity, after food and water. All the really important things in life - marriages, families, employment, often depend on secure and affordable housing as a base.


So it's a peculiar sort of alienation - you can get as much caviar as you want, but you can't afford bread.

Samsonite1

princeofpounds wrote: »

You know, on a more general point the malaise for the young today is pretty specific.


I think very few people would say that most things in life are harder. Indeed they are not. Consumer goods - anything from computers to foreign holidays - are generally much, much cheaper.


Alcoholic drinks aside due to tax - nightlife is more expensive perhaps, but fairly discretionary.


Unemployment was a real problem after the financial crisis, but that has improved in the last couple of years (even though less so for the young, especially the low-skilled).


Really, the main issue is simply the cost of housing. Whether prices or rents.


The problem is, that's really the #1 necessity, after food and water. All the really important things in life - marriages, families, employment, often depend on secure and affordable housing as a base.


So it's a peculiar sort of alienation - you can get as much caviar as you want, but you can't afford bread.

That is correct more or less, but actually it is more "you can get as much caviar as you want, but you can only have small or ragged pieces of bread" Edit - maybe more "you should stop having caviar and spend more on bread"?. The point being that young people could get on the property ladder - it is not a mathematical impossibility but people have higher expectations for luxury and will not sacrifice. Maybe it was easier a while back, but I am yet to meet a young person who could not get on the property if they made some changes (or should have done - in which case "you made your bed, so you can sleep in it).

It is very harsh to say these things but there seems to be a lack of willpower. I am not even that old - I was a graduate in the 2000s with debts, overdraft, etc.:
- I had a cheap mobile phone but no landline
- I shared a 2 bedroom flat with 3 other people (2 couples) to keep rent at £250 per month.
- I stopped going out many times per week in clubs and pubs and instead invited friends round to share a couple of bottles of wine or some beers.
- I learned to cook to save money on food
- I had no car
- My first graduate job paid £16k
- I saved up for quite a few years and bought a tiny 2-bed house on a housing estate with my girlfriend, poured any spare money into this over 4-5 years then sold it to get a decent deposit and by a new house in the South East, while securing much higher paid jobs to pay the mortgage comfortably.

I do not think I started from a particularly privileged position and considering that I bought at the end of the big property boom, I did not even time things that well.

Everyone's situation is different of course, but I had to bite the bullet and accept that my first house was not going to be my dream home and was just a stepping stone. Putting money into the house was going to help me more than throwing it away on rent.

[Deleted User]

"I did it 10/20/30 years ago, so the circumstances and situations of young people must be exactly the same now, and they're just bunch of whining chumps"

I'm sat in my 3-bed house in the SE, as a 35 year old, considering exactly how I would have got my first step on the ladder had I been born 10 years later.

I'd be carrying a bunch more university debt. The start home that cost me £200k would now cost me £300k. The graduate salary I started on would only be a few grand more. I'd have to save for several more years (watching house prices rise still) until my savings and salary got to a situation where I could buy somewhere. I'd probably delay paying into a pension to help save up money for that deposit. Maybe I'd only be able to buy a shared ownership house. I certainly couldn't get the IO mortgage that got my 'foot on the ladder' until I could afford repayments. The house would probably be even further out of London (and I bought in zone 6). I'd probably have to delay getting married and having kids for a few more years.

I honestly believe it's got harder over the last 9 years since I joined the ranks of home owners. Salaries just haven't paced with house prices. Population density in some areas have made scarcity the driver of prices; not salaries.

So, climb down off those high horses everyone who bought in the 70s, who had shoe-boxes and deck chairs for furniture. We're in an era of salary stagnation, increasing population and global financial re-alignment. You had your problems (high rates, unemployment, Thatcher) and the young generation have theirs.

Generali

If we're talking changes in discretionary spending, well over half the adult population of the UK smoked in the 1970s.

[Deleted User]

Generali wrote: »

If we're talking changes in discretionary spending, well over half the adult population of the UK smoked in the 1970s.

Don't forget all those people renting their electrical appliances. I remember the death-throws of Radio Rentals when I was a teenager!

(Bought my first VCR in a closing-down sale)

ukcarper

ringo_24601 wrote: »

Don't forget all those people renting their electrical appliances. I remember the death-throws of Radio Rentals when I was a teenager!

(Bought my first VCR in a closing-down sale)

But the point you and Graham are missing is that people did that after they had saved for and bought a house.

ukcarper

ringo_24601 wrote: »

"I did it 10/20/30 years ago, so the circumstances and situations of young people must be exactly the same now, and they're just bunch of whining chumps"

I'm sat in my 3-bed house in the SE, as a 35 year old, considering exactly how I would have got my first step on the ladder had I been born 10 years later.

I'd be carrying a bunch more university debt. The start home that cost me £200k would now cost me £300k. The graduate salary I started on would only be a few grand more. I'd have to save for several more years (watching house prices rise still) until my savings and salary got to a situation where I could buy somewhere. I'd probably delay paying into a pension to help save up money for that deposit. Maybe I'd only be able to buy a shared ownership house. I certainly couldn't get the IO mortgage that got my 'foot on the ladder' until I could afford repayments. The house would probably be even further out of London (and I bought in zone 6). I'd probably have to delay getting married and having kids for a few more years.

I honestly believe it's got harder over the last 9 years since I joined the ranks of home owners. Salaries just haven't paced with house prices. Population density in some areas have made scarcity the driver of prices; not salaries.

So, climb down off those high horses everyone who bought in the 70s, who had shoe-boxes and deck chairs for furniture. We're in an era of salary stagnation, increasing population and global financial re-alignment. You had your problems (high rates, unemployment, Thatcher) and the young generation have theirs.

I think I have been clear that it is more difficult to buy now but that's not to say it's impossible of course there are people who can't afford to buy but there always have been. Its no good comparing all of the pass to now yes property was a lot cheaper in the 90s but when I bought in the 70s average house price was 5X average earnings compared to 6X now.

[Deleted User]

ukcarper wrote: »

I think I have been clear that it is more difficult to buy now but that's not to say it's impossible of course there are people who can't afford to buy but there always have been. Its no good comparing all of the pass to now yes property was a lot cheaper in the 90s but when I bought in the 70s average house price was 5X average earnings compared to 6X now.

What I'm saying is that it isn't impossible. I'm sure I would have got on the ladder if born 10 years later - BUT, there are consequences of it being harder.

I would have spent longer renting in a shared house. I would have had to take on more initial mortgage debt. I would have delayed pension contributions, a delayed family..

These are all going to have social consequences.