A new form of free electric heating....probably not for the UK!

lstar337

Probably no good for the UK with its fairly terrible communications network, but a novel idea none the less!

I have to say I like the idea, and if we had infrastructure here to support it, I would probably go for it!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32816775

I'm looking specifically at the Nerdalize heater which is basically a server that chucks out heat (disguised as a pretty looking radiator), while your energy costs (for the rad) are reimbursed by the company for the computations completed in the unit.

http://www.nerdalize.com/#section3

Not a bad way to use what is essentially wasted heat.

zeupater

Hi


There was something similar on TV a couple of days ago - linked to a (Dutch ?) university campus .... My initial thoughts ...

Presumably there's no need for processing during the summer else the house could get a little warm and need ~1kW of air-conditioning to compensate, probably fully negating any potential savings on heating. Then there's the question whether the processing system owner really understands the concept of data protection if data is stored/processed off site - and of course confidentiality agreements, insurance issues, additional downtime for IT travelling etc ....

Maybe a good idea if you design distributed processing into an office building or need a local server in a small branch office (think bank/shop etc) or even off site mirrored processing, but to have an unsecured system in domestic properties seems to raise too many security issues for my liking and would certainly fall well short of the physical and environmental requirements of ISO2700x ...

In summary, what initially looks like a good idea actually has extremely limited applications for distributed domestic processing in the real world. Possibly a decent design offering to sell/lease to someone running a small business & working from home (architect etc), but that'd be a completely different concept to the one described.

HTH
Z

lstar337

zeupater wrote: »

Presumably there's no need for processing during the summer else the house could get a little warm and need ~1kW of air-conditioning to compensate, probably fully negating any potential savings on heating.

I thought this too, but there was a mention either on their site or the BBC story that unneeded heat could be vented outside. I'll see if I can find it.

The server in the radiator does not stop working when the unit is turned off, but the heat is pushed into an extractor on the outside wall. And in the unlikely event that a user needs heat but the internet is down and the radiator has nothing to work on, it starts performing dummy equations.

Not sure if that means knocking a huge hole in the wall. :rotfl:

zeupater wrote: »

Then there's the question whether the processing system owner really understands the concept of data protection if data is stored/processed off site.

They did briefly address this by saying that there was no way to trace what data was where or at what time, so you could only get a useless chunk of something anyway. They seem to already have some agreements in place as they are already processing some kind of medical data for the trial.

zeupater wrote: »

In summary, what initially looks like a good idea actually has extremely limited applications for distributed domestic processing in the real world. Possibly a decent design offering to sell/lease to someone running a small business & working from home (architect etc), but that'd be a completely different concept to the one described.

HTH
Z

Thank you for your thoughts zeupater.

I myself reservations about the business side of it, but the company seems confident, and it seems fairly low risk for the person heating their home.

nigelpm

Looks like a gimmick to me.

The cost would make it prohibitive and uneconomic at these prices:

Cost: 400-500 euros (£290-360) to set up, then free of charge to use

lstar337

nigelpm wrote: »

Looks like a gimmick to me.

Possibly. I think it would need some serious push to become a dominant heating form in residential homes.

nigelpm wrote: »

The cost would make it prohibitive and uneconomic at these prices:

Cost: 400-500 euros (£290-360) to set up, then free of charge to use

I don't agree with this statement, you could say the same about gas central heating. GCH has a huge set up cost and an on ongoing cost for gas, yet thousands of people choose it.

£290-£360 is less than a modern storage heater (which would probably be the next best choice in an all electric home), and a storage heater still has ongoing energy costs.

The appeal is for home users is that once the set up fee is paid, your heat is free. The payback on your initial cost would be fairly quick.

nigelpm

lstar337 wrote: »

I don't agree with this statement, you could say the same about gas central heating. GCH has a huge set up cost and an on ongoing cost for gas, yet thousands of people choose it.

£290-£360 is less than a modern storage heater (which would probably be the next best choice in an all electric home), and a storage heater still has ongoing energy costs.

The appeal is for home users is that once the set up fee is paid, your heat is free. The payback on your initial cost would be fairly quick.

Gas CH is tried and tested and has been in use for decades!

More to the point most houses already have it installed and it works well generally.

A replacement radiator costs £50-£100.

To replace an existing system with a new device that isn't tried and tested isn't going to wash with the majority of folk.

lstar337

nigelpm wrote: »

Gas CH is tried and tested and has been in use for decades!

Your argument is based on upfront cost, gas has a high upfront cost. Also consuming electricity creates heat, it is 100% efficient at it. Only the reliability of the radiator is in question, and that will be replaced for as long as you use the service.

nigelpm wrote: »

More to the point most houses already have it installed and it works well generally.

But at a point in time, they didn't, and it was still a high up front cost. Risk then, risk now, it makes little difference. Except I would say the risk on GCH then, was higher than on this system now.

nigelpm wrote: »

To replace an existing system with a new device that isn't tried and tested isn't going to wash with the majority of folk.

Nobody has suggested replacing GCH with this, It is suited more to all electric properties. The next best thing for all electric properties is night storage heating, and this has a significantly lower outlay than them, and 0 ongoing cost.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it is going take over as a dominant form of heating, especially in this country. But I don't think your reasons are good enough to write it off!

I still think it's an interesting concept. We'll have to see how the Dutch trial goes, maybe it will take off.

Still next to useless here though!

zeupater

lstar337 wrote: »

I thought this too, but there was a mention either on their site or the BBC story that unneeded heat could be vented outside. I'll see if I can find it.Not sure if that means knocking a huge hole in the wall. :rotfl:

They did briefly address this by saying that there was no way to trace what data was where or at what time, so you could only get a useless chunk of something anyway. They seem to already have some agreements in place as they are already processing some kind of medical data for the trial.

Thank you for your thoughts zeupater.

I myself reservations about the business side of it, but the company seems confident, and it seems fairly low risk for the person heating their home.

Hi

Through-wall venting really limits where the unit can be located then ... anyway, here's some points for the logically minded ....

... who's paying for the ~1kW of waste heat to be produced, the system owner ... or ... the homeowner ? ...

... when the homeowner needs to turn the power off, what's the procedure ? ... is there a penalty ? ... Is there an internal UPS ?

... Should we take it for granted that the unit encrypts all data transmitted and stored ?

.... How does it comply with the requirements of ISO27001/27002, BS/ISO17799 ? ... if not then any ISO9000 or TS16949 registered organisation, or anyone in their supply chain shouldn't go within a bargepole length of the offering ... I can see the system being pushed to help with ISO14001, but that's really irrelevant in comparison ...

Have one system containing any personal data compromised in a domestic property with the DASD removed and the ICO shouldn't take long to close the scheme down and actually issue a fine for stupidity .... slices of a datafile which are complete enough to enable processing will likely contain enough information to identify individual data subjects so it must be assumed that if personal data is lost, even if it's encrypted there's no guarantee that given enough time it'll not be readable by someone ....

As said before, good idea on the surface, but ...

HTH
Z

nigelpm

lstar337 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it is going take over as a dominant form of heating, especially in this country. But I don't think your reasons are good enough to write it off!


Still next to useless here though!

And I think they are. Happy to come back in several years and see.

Ben84

I'd have to consider how much load it would put on my internet speeds, but if the numbers were ok it sounds good to me. It's free heat for no great effort, and it reduces pollution.