McDonald's

shaun_from_Africa

pvt wrote: »

If however the organisation accepted the request and then intentionally ignored your request, I contend it would be fraudulent

For it to be fraud, there would need to be an intent for the company concerned to make a financial gain or for the customer to make a financial loss, neither of which would be the case here.
Poor customer service, but by no definition, fraud.

pvt

I understand exactly what fraud is.

In this instance the fraud is agreeing to provide goods or service with a precondition attached, and never intending to meet that precondition. If there was never any intention that the precondition would be met, then that is clearly fraud. The fact that the fraud can be easily detected, by the presence of a rasher of streaky bacon, makes the INTENTION to ignore the request no less of a fraud.

You would presumably have no such problem with a TSO pursuing a retailer for fraud for intentionally passing off non-organic foods as organic?

pvt

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

For it to be fraud, there would need to be an intent for the company concerned to make a financial gain or for the customer to make a financial loss, neither of which would be the case here.
Poor customer service, but by no definition, fraud.

So someone asks for something a supplier cannot provide, and the supplier passes something else off as meeting that customer's requirements, because they would otherwise not get a sale?

How much clearer a case of fraud can there be??

Cornucopia

Err.... no. It's not fraud.

Not legally, anyway.

shaun from Africa has given the legal definition - which is that the perpetrator of the "fraud" intends to make a gain at the victim's expense or to subject them to a loss.... through deceit.

So the questions are:-

- Where is the deceit?
- Where is the gain to McDs?
- Where is the loss to the customer?

Even if McD's purposefully established their whole business model predicated on the notion that they would promise to make special orders, but secretly knew that it cost them 10p more to do it, and therefore never had the intention... it would still be a stretch.

hollydays

pvt wrote: »

What is silly is if you completely twist around the point being discussed and then use that to argue your point.

Nobody on this thread has ever said anything about bacon being provided when they hadn't asked for it. The issue was about bacon being served when the customer had explicitly asked for it not to be. Which is a very different proposition.

The debate was whether serving bacon when asked not to is fraud or not. I think that would come down to intent, as unholyangel cited earlier. If it was served by mistake or even lack of attention, or failure to convey the request from one person to another, then I think it would come down to bad customer service. If however the organisation accepted the request and then intentionally ignored your request, I contend it would be fraudulent.

Whatever, in either case it would be clear breach of contract.

It's unfortunate that a serious discussion about what amounts to a contractual matter of a supplier taking appropriate care to meet a clients request keeps being hijacked by gimps like mattyprice4004 above mistaking it for a debate about religion and using it to further their odious position of bigotry and xenophobia.

God protect us from armchair lawyers

vuvuzela

mattyprice4004 wrote: »

Good, they can shove Halal up their ****.
Can't believe some Subway stores have stopped stocking bacon, it's ridiculous.
And yes, I know it's for business reasons - but in my eyes it should be quite simple - if you can't eat meat traditionally killed, then don't move to the country that serves it rather than expecting them to pander to your religion.

What about those that convert after being born here ?
What about those that are born into a Muslim or Jewish household and have no choice ?

halibut2209

Finding a piece of bacon in your burger despite asking for no bacon is fraud???

Blimey, I've read everything on these boards now!!!

daytona0

halibut2209 wrote: »

Finding a piece of bacon in your burger despite asking for no bacon is fraud???

Blimey, I've read everything on these boards now!!!

Yes, you'd be stealing bacon from them :

RS2000.

Cornucopia wrote: »

Err.... no. It's not fraud.

Not legally, anyway.

shaun from Africa has given the legal definition - which is that the perpetrator of the "fraud" intends to make a gain at the victim's expense or to subject them to a loss.... through deceit.

So the questions are:-

- Where is the deceit? the dishonesty?
- Where is the gain to McDs?something purchased that wouldn't have been had the buyer known the truth
- Where is the loss to the customer?see above.

Even if McD's purposefully established their whole business model predicated on the notion that they would promise to make special orders, but secretly knew that it cost them 10p more to do it, and therefore never had the intention... it would still be a stretch.

..............

lucys_mum

vuvuzela wrote: »

What about those that convert after being born here ?
What about those that are born into a Muslim or Jewish household and have no choice ?

ARE YOU SERIOUS ??????????????? are you suggesting that those who convert,after being born here, thought a whole country would change because they had? If they change their minds fine... if Britain is not to their liking then there are many countries who would welcome their dedication to the faith with open arms.

AND those who are born into a Jewish household uphold the intrinsic beliefs of our country - I wonder if you actually understand that the jewish religion is what Christiany is based on.

Do you really believe that we should bend with the wind, continually? Our country's beliefs, rules and potitics can not come as a shock to anyone in this country - born or immigrated - this is what we are and if it's not for you... then thank you for your input and we're truly sorry to see you go.

SORRY SHOCKED MYSELF ABOUT HOW STRONG MY REACTION WAS TO THE POST