McDonald's

NiallB

ChrisNolan123 wrote: »

Halal = religious faith. Try to educate yourself first.

I believe we had discussion and clarification of this point already, about 4 pages ago.

pvt

ChrisNolan123 wrote: »

Halal = religious faith. Try to educate yourself first.

Well I might be uneducated, but I am pretty sure Halal is not actually a religious faith.

What I thought it was was a set of rituals for slaughtering and handling meat in order to comply with Islamic law.

As the choice of whether you follow a religion, and which religion you follow is personal choice, and not a matter of life and death, I think "Fussy Eater" covers it adequately, without any more insult than I would infer from being called a fussy eater because I don't like the taste of lamb. Or Battenberg cake - god awful creation -I so hate it.

More to the point here is the matter of what you ask for and pay for. If you ask for beef you are being defrauded if you are given horsemeat. And if you explicitly request 'no bacon', then you're being defrauded if you're then served something with it in.

Trying to bring religion into the argument by comparing it with life threatening nut allergies is unhelpful here.

pvt

Quite off the point here, but this reminds me of a case some years back were a recovering patient found cockroaches in a plate of food served to them from the hospital kitchen.

After some investigation the hospital's chief executive was able to report to the media that forensic examination showed the cockroaches had got into the food during preparation prior to it being cooked. He famously concluded that because the cockroaches had therefore been "fully cooked", they did not present a health risk to the patients they were served to.

So that's all right then.

Cornucopia

pvt wrote: »

If you ask for beef you are being defrauded if you are given horsemeat.

Yes, if it done knowingly.

And if you explicitly request 'no bacon', then you're being defrauded if you're then served something with it in.

No, this doesn't make sense and doesn't follow from the Horsemeat point.

If the added ingredient were a corrupting element, then maybe some kind of health & safety infraction.

If the added ingredient was perfectly wholesome, but just unwanted, then it's just poor customer service.


I find the thread quite fascinating, and it's very much the kind of practical and moral dilemma that will occur in a multi-cultural society.

My own overarching position is this: I absolutely respect people's rights to practice their religions (even though I am an Atheist). I demand respect for my own "beliefs" as an Atheist. And I don't consider being accidentally served bacon as an insult to faith or faiths, as long as it was not done deliberately to be so.

pvt

Cornucopia wrote: »

No, this doesn't make sense and doesn't follow from the Horsemeat point.

Hmm - really don't see why you think this. In both cases someone is taking your money to provide something you specifically ask for, whether by inclusion or omission.

The same would apply to someone selling you organic food that wasn't organic, or a power company selling you 'green' energy it bought from an oil-fired power station, or taking your charitable donation for the Nepal earthquake and donating it to UKIP. They're all fraudulent, though none are actually harmful (except the UKIP donation perhaps).

Cornucopia

pvt wrote: »

Hmm - really don't see why you think this. In both cases someone is taking your money to provide something you specifically ask for, whether by inclusion or omission.

The same would apply to someone selling you organic food that wasn't organic, or a power company selling you 'green' energy it bought from an oil-fired power station, or taking your charitable donation for the Nepal earthquake and donating it to UKIP. They're all fraudulent, though none are actually harmful (except the UKIP donation perhaps).

The issue not whether fraud is harmful, as such, but whether it is dishonest.

It is dishonest to put horsemeat in beefburgers instead of beef. There is extra profit to be made at the expense of the customer by doing so. If someone did that knowingly, it could be fraud.

It is not dishonest to accidentally include bacon in a beefburger that normally includes bacon, when asked not to. Not only that, but there is no excess profit to be made by doing so (if anything, a potential saving to the restaurant has been missed). So it's not fraud.

unholyangel

pvt wrote: »

Hmm - really don't see why you think this. In both cases someone is taking your money to provide something you specifically ask for, whether by inclusion or omission.

If horsemeat was normally included in the item you order - or even on other items they offer - then its a mistake.

Intent to deceive makes all the difference.

unholyangel

desperate2save

that info was already provided and linked way way back in post #9 (although granted they just linked the page and not every single word on it - I think most would prefer that to the endless sea of text you have presented).

LilElvis

unholyangel wrote: »

desperate2save

that info was already provided and linked way way back in post #9 (although granted they just linked the page and not every single word on it - I think most would prefer that to the endless sea of text you have presented).

Personally I would rather scroll through a wall of text than eat one of their burgers - it's easier to digest.

desperate2save

LilElvis wrote: »

Personally I would rather scroll through a wall of text than eat one of their burgers - it's easier to digest.

Thank you, I have deleted it, and my other post, just easier than upsetting the lords! I am new to this online forum and found this thread very interesting but will keep my 2 pennies worth out and just read in future!