Appealing against ZZSP limited - your help please

jakeschofield89

Hello all first time poster - long time reader for advice. I have been trying to complete this process by myself after reading all the advice. However I am starting to have a little wobble/crisis of confidence so would appreciate thoughts from someone?

First let me set the scene I was given a parking ticket 22/12/2014. I was ticketed at home in a space that I own as part of a contract for the building I rent (underground car park). This was for parking in my own space, unfortunately the permit had blown off the dashboard. I had already paid one earlier in the year and did some brief research - to find they were only invoices not legal penalty notices. I then followed the advice of a friend to just keep ignoring letters.

Signage in the building states parking is reserved for : - vehicles fully displaying a valid parking permit
- pre- authorised vehicles in a pre allocated space.

I fall within the second category and am really annoyed that Im getting hassled for parking in my own bloody space!
I thought the problem had gone away but on a recent trip to my family home found several letters (marked private and confidential to myself) that my parents had been holding on to - the most recent from a Wright and Hasall solicitors. They are threatening to take me to court for £178. Again further reading I found this was pretty unlikely but thought an email to the parking company may be worth it. The company in question was TSP, which I think is owned by ZZSP parking. The letter I sent I will post at the end.

I received correspondence back from ZZSP stating that the matter had passed to their solicitors and I should contact them. Essentially the advice I would like is 1. Should I send the letter on to the solicitors or will entering into correspondence legitimise their claim/antagonise them making them more likely to take me to court? Or go back to ignore...
2. Does the letter need any tweaks/changes?
3. Can they take me to a county court for such a small amount or would it have to be a small claims court?

Thanks in advance, just lost my nerve slightly and would appreciate some advice from some people who have dealt with this before.

Letter sent:

Dear Sir or Madam,



Ticket number:

Vehicle registration number:



As the registered keeper of this vehicle I was issued with a parking ticket on 22/12/2014 20:58 but I believe it was unfairly issued. The car park is managed by TSP but I believe this is controlled by yourself.



I have lived in the building for two years and have full legal use of space 24. I have discussed this matter with both letting agents and the building manager who have advised me to write to you.

The correspondence you have been sending was addressed to my family home as private and confidential I have only just received these letters and therefore write to you now.

I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reasons:




· Mitigating circumstances

I am the legal owner of said space in question. I have the permit and the contract allowing me to use the space. On the signage around the car park it is stated in the second bullet point that “parking in this car park is reserved for pre-authorised vehicles parked fully within the confines of their allocated space.” Unfortunately the permit had fallen out of position on the dashboard. But this simple matter does not justify a charge of £178.

· The charge is disproportionate and not commercially justifiable



The amount you have charged is not based upon any commercially justifiable loss to your company or the landowner.


According to the Unfair Consumer Contract Regulations, parking charges on private land must not exceed the cost to the landowner during the period the motorist is parked there. In my case, the £178.00 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner; as I in fact already pay for this parking space therefore there is no monetary loss to your own company. Under contract law you are only allowed to claim for the amount of money you have actually lost. Which in this case is £0.00.



Similarly as a member of the BPA yourself you must adhere to their code of practice. Section 34.6 of this states that they would not expect a charge for breach of contract to exceed more than £100. Your charge of £178 is unreasonable in its amount and could lead to investigation by the Trading Standards Authority or other similar body.



I would like for the PCN to be cancelled for the reasons stated above.



If you believe if it is still viable I would accept an offer of ‘drop hands’ as I appreciate you have incurred some financial loss by writing these letters however that cannot amount to more than £15 - £20. I would consider this amount to be the same on my side when time and stress factors are taken into account.



I would also like to request my POPLA code so I can formally appeal – I have mitigating circumstances for why it has taken me some time to reply and therefore you are obliged to provide me with this so I can appeal in the normal manner.



If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only correspondence you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter. If you wish to pursue further legal action then any legal action should be preceded by a letter before claim complying with best practice directions.



I would ask that any further correspondence is sent to...


Yours faithfully,

enfield_freddy

edit your car reg and address out now


(or I will send you a fine , sorry invoice)

Redx

I would remove personal details from that post for starters

next, search the forum using the words WRIGHT HASSELL andf ZZPS to see similar complaints where a letter to that solicitors made them refer the matter back to ZZPS as an SRA complaint was also made

like this one https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5200404

you can ignore debt collector letters , see post #4 of the NEWBIES sticky thread

also read this thread too , posts #12 and #13

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5161978

all I ask is you do more research before you go ahead with that ltter, also waiting for more replies

in the meantime, use the search like I said, and learn from others with similar experiences

only the PPC can issue a popla code (but wont want to)

bazster

ZZPS is an utterly toothless debt collector and should be ignored entirely, they have no claim against you whatsoever, and nor do they own any parking company.

The letters from Wright Hassall are fake and are really from ZZPS pretending to be Right Hassle (for which Right hassle gets a small kickback per letter).

What is your tenure over your flat i.e. do you rent it or do you own it leasehold?

What agreement is in place over the parking space? You pay for the use of it, yes? Is there a written contract for this, or what does it say in your rental agreement or leasehold for the flat? Do the terms for using the parking space mention permits?

There will be no PoPLA code, TSP is a member of the IPC with its sham appeals system so no PoPLA. Anyway, if you're getting letters from ZZPS you are almost certainly beyond the appealing stage.

jakeschofield89

Wow quick responses... rank amateur mistake with the personal details. Apologies!

Tenure over the flat is rent. Unfortunately there is nothing in the contract RE the parking space.Not even a line. An oversight on my behalf I guess which won't be happening again.

Ive had another good read, thanks for the direction. I think what I am going to try is sending one robust letter to wright hassall saying that I deny the claim etc, please refer back to ZZSP then demand my POPLA code off them. ZZSP is a member of BPA so surely I can get it off them? Or because it was a TSP car park originally with the claim passed on to them I can't? Should i be angling all of my complaints back at TSP.

From the gist of what I am reading its very unlikely that zzsp will take me to court anyway. And it is only them that could send a LBC? The debt collectors can't.

The only downside is I have an extremely busy job, and am a chronic stress avoider... f this were to go to court I imagine I may cave and simply pay to remove the stress. Can i check again what is the process would they be allowed to take me to county court as threatened or because its such a small amount would it have to be small claims? Im really keen to stick to my guns and not pay for this as it seems wrong.
Thanks again for the advice so far.

Redx

its ZZPS, so use the correct acronym in your letters to these people

same with TPS (Total Parking Solutions Ltd)

maybe you have mild dyslexia like me ? if so its important to double check the spellings are correct in these matters

only the actual PPC can issue the POPLA code, not ZZPS

only the PPC (or landowner) can take you to court, not the debt collectors

bazster

You didn't answer my most crucial question: please confirm whether you pay for the use of the parking space (over and above your rent for the flat). If so, there is a contract in place, whether written or not. In a way the absence of a written contract is in your favour because obviously it can't say anything about the display of a permit. You can prove that you have a kind of tenure over the parking space (because you can prove you are paying for it monthly or whatever) but no-one can prove you ever agreed to display a permit (and why should you anyway in a space you are effectively renting?).

So, do you pay for the parking space? And if so, who do you pay? Your landlord (for the flat)? The management company? Someone else?

ZZPS can't issue you a PoPLA code since they are not the "operator", and the operator (TSP) can't issue you a PoPLA code since they are not a member of the BPA.

I'd suggest forgetting about appealing, that window has closed.

You could write an extremely stroppy letter to Wright Hassall and send it personally to most or all of the senior staff you will find on this page:

http://www.wrighthassall.co.uk/our-people/people/

Someone got Wright Hassall off his back by doing that. See these threads:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5199420

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5186141

ZZPS is the debt collector, and they cannot and will not take you to court. In fact no-one is going to take you to court, not for parking in a space you rent! What we need to do is to establish who you complain to about the trespass on your parking space.

jakeschofield89

No I do not pay for the space separately. It is just included as part of the rental.
So in effect I pay the landlord for use of the space by occupying his house.

OK thanks for the specific advice RE dropping the idea of appeal. Thought it might be too late but sounded like a good get out jail free card to play. I will try the stroppy letter idea to Wright and Hassall to try and stop these letters from being sent.

From the sound of things the worst that will probably happen is they ignore my letter; and continue to write to me. I will let you know how I get on.

The_Deep

I doubt very much if this will ever get to court. No-one has lost a penny, how could a judge find against you. My stress free solution is to file and forget.

jakeschofield89

Right this is the letter I am going to email, to Wright Hassall would appreciate some feedback as so far think I haven't been doing things quite up to par. It is a steep learning curve (cut me some slack). Whili I agree that it is unlikely to go anywhere I just want these letters to stop. I do not like loose ends:

To Whom It May Concern,

I am writing to you with regards to the letter dated xx/xx/xx, Wright Hassall reference: XXXXX.

I would like to inform you that this private parking notice is disputed and denied in full. I have been in contact with TSP Car Park Management LTD to inform them of this.

The reasons for this are:

• Mitigating Circumstances: The invoice in question was issued to myself as registered keeper for parking in a space which I pay for. Unfortunately the parking permit had fallen from the windscreen, however signage in the area dictates that cars allowed to park here are “pre-authorised vehicles in a pre-allocated place.”

• The charge is disproportionate and not commercially justifiable: According to the Unfair Consumer Contract Regulations, parking charges on private land must not exceed the cost to the landowner during the period the motorist is parked there. In my case, the £178.00 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner; as I in fact already pay for this parking space therefore there is no monetary loss to either party. Under contract law you are only allowed to claim for the amount of money you have actually lost. Which in this case is £0.00.

This is a summary of the points I will be defending on and I will file a fully pleaded defence should the Claimant start court proceedings. I will be using images of signage in the car park as well as the permit itself in my defence.

Furthermore I have no contract with your client ZZPS limited. They have no claim to make over me; this would make any further legal proceedings very difficult indeed. If you wish to continue I would like documentary evidence of the Claimant's standing to issue proceedings, in the form of a copy of the contract between the Claimant and the Landowner.

I found the letter both threatening and intimidating, making reference to damaging credit ratings and being entered on county court registers etc.

If you persist in continuing with legal proceedings then I will also require further information in the form of:

1. The name and address of the landowner of said parking facilities
2. An itemised breakdown of your clients losses as a result of this parking incident.
3. An itemised breakdown of the landowner’s losses as a result of this incident.


Similarly I would ask that the Letter Before Claim complies with the requirements of Annex A Para 2 of the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct as can be found here:

Link to practice directions

I confirm that I shall then seek advice and submit a formal Response within 30 days of receipt, as required by the Practice Direction.

Please ensure that someone does actually read and respond to this letter, providing the specific information relating to the county court claim that your client intends to make against myself as the defendant to the proposed legal proceedings. Please DO NOT send a generic FAQ letter in reply as to do so does not meet the requirements of the Practice Direction and will take this matter no further forward.

Please note, a refusal to comply with the Practice Direction will result in an immediate referral to the Solicitors Regulation Authority for breach of the Principles contained in the SRA Handbook version 8, published on 1st October 2013.

I feel that the most preferable course of action is for this matter to be closed with regards to further legal action and allow me to resolve the matter with the private parking company in question.

Regards,

jakeschofield89

Ive also added:

If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only correspondence you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter. If I feel that the answers supplied are inadequate further formal correspondence will be made to senior partners within the firm.

Should I send this by post to Wright Hassall. I have been given an email debt.support@wrighthassall.co.uk but this was given to me by ZZPS in response to my letter to them. So assume its probs a fake one that just goes right back to them?