Trying to dispute a 12 year old council tax debt

minionherder

Hi,

I could do with some advice please. Last year I received a CT bill for my old address, it was for two amounts, one 12 years old the other 11 years old. Liverpool city council.

Apparently they have liability orders on them however the 11 year old order was obtained after I moved out.

I am convinced we paid the 12 year old debt in full as my mortgage company wanted proof we were debt free with our council tax before they agreed to the new mortgage. The second amount 'may' have been an oversight on my part but I never received any paperwork for it as I had moved out. The council were informed by me via a hand delivered letter that I had moved as I also handed in my keys at the same time.

Ok my questions.

Is the second liability order enforceable? I never received it or any related paperwork. The council claim it is as they have proof of posting but I'm disputing it as I was unable to defend this order.

After 12 years I am prejudiced against when trying to prove I paid off the first amount. I have no records of that time, the payments were attachment of earnings so there is no bank records or surviving payslips. Is there any route I can take to dispute this amount I believe I have paid?

The council are stonewalling me I have sent 4 letters they either ignore them or tell me I don't have a leg to stand on and to start paying these amounts off. They have even passed them onto bailiffs despite my ongoing disputes. Can I escalate this matter to an ombudsman or other mediator?

I have asked the council for the following details, the ones with a star are the ones they have answered. Is there anything else they should be telling me/I should be asking?
1 - a copy of any Liability Orders.
2 - the dates the Liability Orders were obtained *
3 - the period of time each order covers *
4 - how much each one was for *
5 - how much is still outstanding *
6 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement
7 - the dates & amounts of any payments *
8 - any fees that have been added to the amount
9 - a copy of their 'write off policy' from 2003
10-The explanation as the time taken to pursue the debt.
11-Clarification on the legality of pursuing the 2003 debt.
12-A decision on the enforceability of the 2002 debt.
13-A decision on writing off the 2002 debt.


Last questions, as I'm disputing this debt can I get the council to back off with the bailiffs? Obviously fees have been added how do I go about disputing these fees? I informed the bailiffs by letter of the dispute as soon as they sent their first letter.

fatbelly

It seems to me that you are doing a good job of challenging them. Unfortunately I do not know of any legislation that will help you if (as seems to be the case) liability orders were obtained.

You are left with trying to put pressure on them to drop it. Your best ally may be your local councillor. This site will help you find who that is, and write to them

https://www.writetothem.com/

You can also refer this to the LGO

http://www.lgo.org.uk/forms/ShowForm.asp?fm_fid=62

CIS

Is the second liability order enforceable? I never received it or any related paperwork. The council claim it is as they have proof of posting but I'm disputing it as I was unable to defend this order.

Provided they can show all mail was sent to the last known address then it has been served correctly and the liability order could be granted on this basis.

9 - a copy of their 'write off policy' from 2003

Other than suggesting to the council they may have broken their own internal policies this has no bearing on the matter,

10-The explanation as the time taken to pursue the debt.

You can ask but there's no requirement for them to pursue any debt for any particular time - once a liability order is granted its enforceable as long as a balance remains due.

11-Clarification on the legality of pursuing the 2003 debt.
12-A decision on the enforceability of the 2002 debt.

Time wise, assuming the liability order was obtained within 6 years of the amount being due then there are no issues over them enforcing it, even after this length of time.

13-A decision on writing off the 2002 debt.

You can ask and they can say yes or no at their discretion.

They have even passed them onto bailiffs despite my ongoing disputes. Can I escalate this matter to an ombudsman or other mediator?

Legally this is not an issue - there's no legal requirement to hold any action. The ombudsman can make 'recommendation' but it's not legally enforceable and it's usually given only as the ombudsman's opinion. That being said, most council's will listen the ombudsman but they could ignore them if they see fit.

CIS

Last questions, as I'm disputing this debt can I get the council to back off with the bailiffs? Obviously fees have been added how do I go about disputing these fees? I informed the bailiffs by letter of the dispute as soon as they sent their first letter.

The enforcement agent will only act under the instruction of the council. At the moment they are acting under a legally granted liability order and therefore the action they take in respect of this order would be correct (obviously it has to be within the bounds of their legal powers) and fees could be charged for action they take.

minionherder

CIS wrote: »

Provided they can show all mail was sent to the last known address then it has been served correctly and the liability order could be granted on this basis.

Cheers for the replies in this case though I informed them of change of address. However it was on a complaint letter I handed in when I returned my council house keys to them.

My guess as to what has happened is that they couldn't be bothered with resolving our complaint and so 'lost' the letter. However it's 12 years ago which again just complicates the matter.

fatbelly

minionherder wrote: »

Hi,
Last questions, as I'm disputing this debt can I get the council to back off with the bailiffs? Obviously fees have been added how do I go about disputing these fees? I informed the bailiffs by letter of the dispute as soon as they sent their first letter.

Local Authorities should remain prepared to deal directly with individuals at any point. It is perfectly within their gift to call action back from the bailiffs at any time and where there is a case to do so they should consider such action.

From

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/210478/Guidance_on_enforcement_of_CT_arrears.pdf