Nationwide Subjective Decline

AbletonGuy

Hi

At a complete loss as to why Nationwide have subjective declined our mortgage application. Its been an absolute nightmare dealing with them over the last 7 weeks and now we don't know what to do or watch out for next time.

We passed all stages, 4 months bank statements, proof of income, savings, everything. The reason for decline was:

1. My job is in Yorkshire and the purchase is in Devon.
2. Grandparents live in Yorkshire family will be living in Devon

I questioned this and told them it was my intention to remain in my job until a like-for-like job came up in Devon - I also told them my in-laws had purchased a house in Devon and they complete next week.

The underwriters response was:

1. It may take months/years for a vacancy to arise in Devon. We don't know the income level will be acceptable

2. It is not feasible that the applicant will remain in Yorkshire away from his family for any length of time

As I say we passed every financial check less than 50/50 LTV (£92,000 deposit and ported mortgage of £88,000).

I can't believe that Nationwide can base decisions on their own personal assumptions. The trouble I've had with ensuring they have received proofs has been unbelievably stressful and time consuming. We've spent over £1000 of conveyancing fees and survey fees. Nothing like this is detailed in their lending criteria.

My question is where do we go from here? Will this decline affect our chances of finding another lender?

Thank you.

stephenni1971

Where will you live when you are away from home working?

AbletonGuy

Hi

I have a choice of staying with family FOC, staying at my place of work FOC or staying with a friend FOC. I'm planning on seeing my family during the generous 37 days paid leave a year I get and my family will be visiting me every two weeks (getting a lift from my in-laws who are visiting family in Yorkshire) no travel expenditure.

I also find it strange that the Nationwide underwriter did not ask me. I feel it's also irrelevant as in terms of affordability I could easily meet any rent obligations if I did have to pay.

Any help or advice would be appreciated. Any other Nationwide customers experienced this kind of decline.

I think the thing that has irked me is that the Nationwide underwriter appears to be making a moral judgement and not a judgment based on affordability.

'it is not feasible that the applicant will remain in Yorkshire away from his family for any length of time'

This is a very damaging assumption to make IMHO.

What do they think I'm going to do? Default on my mortgage payments and risk losing 60% equity in my home?

I suspect they have noted the £4000 early repayment charge on my current mortgage with them will be more profitable to collect?

Landofwood

Seems perfectly reasonable from Nationwide.

TravelBugHappy

I think Nationwide are being prudent - there are so many variables to your situation - relying on other people to make that massive drive & only seeing your family onceevery 2 weeks is a bit dubious.

My husband work away during week, were soon applying for a mortgage but when we do we'll show our mortgage company the rail tickets are paid for via a company credit card & the small amount he pays in rent - he's been in similar roles for several years so well evidenced - quite different to your situation

MoneySaverMick

Ignore the comment above from LandofWood. Totally unhelpful, provocative and not what we need of these forums. Please don't taint the other helpful members with the same brush.

The circumstances you have detailed are not something I have never seen before and you won't be the only person in this situation.

I'd recommend a reputable broker since you have already lost money. One thing you must do is ensure to the lender or the broker, whichever route you take, explain everything from the start and provide (where possible) evidence such as family address etc. to support your application.

With your LTV being like it is you should have no problem securing a mortgage trust me, just that Nationwide aren't the lender for you.

AbletonGuy

Thank you so much for the advice MoneySaverMick. It's encouraging to hear when you feel as deflated as we do now. Will take your advice.

TravelBugHappy - appreciate your view but I don't see anything 'dubious' about seeing family every two weeks. I know of many people who work offshore, overseas etc. We are not relying on family to do the long drive they are visiting regularly to see their other family.

Funny thing is, our buyer has secured a Nationwide mortgage, works in London and visits Yorkshire once a week to see family.

I do think its a tad sloppy that the Nationwide did not pick up on this at the application stage when we informed them of my work location and the address of the property.

Thrugelmir

AbletonGuy wrote: »

I can't believe that Nationwide can base decisions on their own personal assumptions.

Nothing personal in their decision. The NW have to base their decision on the facts as they currently stand. As they as lenders are accountable to the regulators as to the policies they adopt when making lending decisions. A senior underwriter has viewed your case in line with NW policy and decided that they are unwilling to commit to such a risk. A commercial decision nothing more nothing less.

Landofwood

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Nothing personal in their decision. The NW have to base their decision on the facts as they currently stand. As they as lenders are accountable to the regulators as to the policies they adopt when making lending decisions. A senior underwriter has viewed your case in line with NW policy and decided that they are unwilling to commit to such a risk. A commercial decision nothing more nothing less.

How dare you be so unhelpful and provocative!

AbletonGuy

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Nothing personal in their decision. The NW have to base their decision on the facts as they currently stand. As they as lenders are accountable to the regulators as to the policies they adopt when making lending decisions. A senior underwriter has viewed your case in line with NW policy and decided that they are unwilling to commit to such a risk. A commercial decision nothing more nothing less.

Thank you. It would be useful for applicants to have sight of the NW policy. How would you/I know that a senior underwriter has viewed my case?

Don't get me wrong I accept their decision but I do feel there needs to be clearer information for clients. Someone who is obese or undertakes in a dangerous activity could be assumed a risk? I just don't see how working in one area and buying a property in another can be seen as a risk. But I thank you all for your input.

Landofwood

AbletonGuy wrote: »

Thank you. It would be useful for applicants to have sight of the NW policy. How would you/I know that a senior underwriter has viewed my case?

Don't get me wrong I accept their decision but I do feel there needs to be clearer information for clients. Someone who is obese or undertakes in a dangerous activity could be assumed a risk? I just don't see how working in one area and buying a property in another can be seen as a risk. But I thank you all for your input.

It can be surprising how the finance industry views risk.

Let's take car insurance for example. You get back to your parked car at Sainsbury's and you notice that someone has rear-ended your car and driven off.

You report it to your insurance company, and next year your insurance premium jumps £40. Doesn't seem fair, does it? But they now have more information about you - they now know for a fact that you use the car for supermarket visits, and cars that frequent supermarket car parks are x% more likely to make claims.

A similar process is undertaken by lender underwriters. Their data suggests that customers who work the other side of the country to their mortgaged property are x% more likely to encounter financial issues. On this occasion Nationwide have decided the risk is too great.

Lender's don't publish their exact lending formulas as this is private information.