Non Dom, or not Non Dom, that is the question

padington

The key issue for normal working people is that they think the rich have been mugging them off. They feel the bankers put the nation into debt and still havent paid their dues personally for this, they feel the rich dodge taxes which they don't, they think the big corporations dodge taxes also and kill the chance of the little bussiness's by dodging taxes which little bussiness just can't dodge and they feel increasingly that the game is fixed and the American Dream in the UK is dead.

On top of this, in a sad ironic way, at the centre of our great global powerhouse captial city, this lack of social mobility is felt even more so than anywhere else as house prices begin to require a prime ministers salary to obtain a mortgage with a small deposit.

What's the solution I don't know but the coalition certainly didn't bring everyone along on the ride and when you fail to do that in a democracy, you lose elections.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

padington wrote: »

The key issue for normal working people is that they think the rich have been mugging them off.

Whereas in reality the choice is not between the rich paying a lot under non-dom status and paying even more if it's abolished, it's between the rich paying a lot under non-dom status and nothing at all if it's abolished and they then have to spend less than 90 days a year here.

Other countries will welcome their spending with open arms.

Non-doms pay a high fee each year for their status, AND pay full UK tax on all money they have as income here. We'd be mad to give that up.

padington

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Whereas in reality the choice is not between the rich paying a lot under non-dom status and paying even more if it's abolished, it's between the rich paying a lot under non-dom status and nothing at all if it's abolished and they then have to spend less than 90 days a year here.

Other countries will welcome their spending with open arms.

Non-doms pay a high fee each year for their status, AND pay full UK tax on all money they have as income here. We'd be mad to give that up.

Problem is, we have millions of people wishing for a house price crash. The nation is full of crashists now. Half the average dinner party is wishing for a big nasty crash. People have no fear of choosing to follow the path which will pull the house of cards down because they feel, they don't have any cards in the game.

So the idea that this will cause economic havock, for many renters, misguidedly, brings a smile to their face.

It's a terrible space for the country to be in really. We're now a terribly divided country. Essentially there are now two tribes (owners & moaners) wanting completely opposite outcomes.

We need to make more owners and less moaners and do it quickly.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

padington wrote: »

We need to make more owners and less moaners and do it quickly.

Rent is less than a mortgage payment in most of the UK.

If we want more owners and less moaners, we need to aggressively expand mortgage lending, so the young can once again compete with the old and wealthy for the purchase of assets.

lostinrates

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Whereas in reality the choice is not between the rich paying a lot under non-dom status and paying even more if it's abolished, it's between the rich paying a lot under non-dom status and nothing at all if it's abolished and they then have to spend less than 90 days a year here.

Other countries will welcome their spending with open arms.

Non-doms pay a high fee each year for their status, AND pay full UK tax on all money they have as income here. We'd be mad to give that up.

Some non doms, a minority, are political. Not tax avoidance. Non eu people refused dom status for political / moral/ dare I say it but sometimes even 'personal' reasons by the government of the day. If a person is ready to commit, live here, pay up to do so, then told no, I can see why they might feel no moral obligation to step up to the plate. ( wondering whether my example is public knowledge or not, hoping someone else will have an example of such a situation)

Moby

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Whereas in reality the choice is not between the rich paying a lot under non-dom status and paying even more if it's abolished, it's between the rich paying a lot under non-dom status and nothing at all if it's abolished and they then have to spend less than 90 days a year here.

Other countries will welcome their spending with open arms.

Non-doms pay a high fee each year for their status, AND pay full UK tax on all money they have as income here. We'd be mad to give that up.

Loads of the rich and powerful live in New York and they don't have non dom status there so why should they suddenly upsticks and depart these shores if it is stopped?

Jennifer_Jane

I understand that it's bizarre to be able to claim "non-dom" status based on some arbitrary reason.


I have "non-resident" status in South Africa so that money is allowed by South Africa to leave the Country. The income is also taxable in South Africa.


As I can choose the income I receive from a fairly small pension, I choose to take a level of income which is less than the taxable amount in South Africa. Pretty much the full amount comes back to the UK to spend here. Say the UK Government decided to tax that money, even at 20% I would prefer to leave the money in South Africa and just go on lovely holidays there.


Firstly, why wouldn't any other, much wealthier, "non-dom" decide to do that (ie other things, including overseas charities, or whatever) with their money?


Secondly, why isn't income earned overseas taxed in those countries? If it is, then why should there be double taxation on income?


We encourage tourists to visit to bring in foreign exchange, surely all this is an archaic and outdated name and status for what tourists do, but without having to bother to entertain them.


When you hear Miliband standing up saying the British people want non-doms to be taxed just like ordinary British people are, then of course, people will want that. He doesn't say, however, that in the UK they are taxed just like the man in the street, this is simply foreign exchange which they are bringing into the Country to spend here, and they pay £30,000 a year to do that.


I'm certainly not rich at all, in fact I'm sure I'm poorer than most people on this board. But I certainly have never worked, or been employed by, anyone poorer than me. I have only occasionally in my life employed anyone. Of course I'm envious of wealth, but I do know that it's the rich who pay the most taxes.

kabayiri

The non-dom issue isn't really a revenue topic. It's a political morality cause intended to play on a widely perceived injustice.

The politicians don't need to find all the deserving non-dom cases, just hint at a few of the unsavouries out there (and we all know they exist).

Still, if non-doms didn't exist then magazines like Private Eye wouldn't be able to write about people such as the Barclays Brothers. They seem to think that their money overrides the rights of the people of Sark.

N1AK

tincans6 wrote: »

We are talking about people who live here all year, have their home & family here and are often born here.

Yet people think they should be non-domicile

I'm pretty sure you're not being deliberately thick, but you're rather missing the point. Non-domicile allows people who could easily avoid taxation via being non-resident to be UK residents, pay less tax on income from outside the UK in return for paying a considerable amount of UK tax.

If I'm currently a non-dom with huge income from the middle east oil industry who spends considerable amount of time outside the UK then it would not require a large change in behaviour to go from non-dom to non-resident; however that would potentially cost the UK a considerable amount in lost tax revenue.

chewmylegoff

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Whereas in reality the choice is not between the rich paying a lot under non-dom status and paying even more if it's abolished, it's between the rich paying a lot under non-dom status and nothing at all if it's abolished and they then have to spend less than 90 days a year here.

Other countries will welcome their spending with open arms.

Non-doms pay a high fee each year for their status, AND pay full UK tax on all money they have as income here. We'd be mad to give that up.

Isn't it 182 days or less as long as you have a home somewhere else, like, say, Monaco...

I expect that quite a lot of people will just !!!!!! off for half the year and therefore reduce the amount of tax paid as the rules for non residents are the same but without the annual non dom levy...