Solar Panel quote, please help.. I'm (easily)confused

CLVI

Hello everyone

I've read a lot of very interesting posts on here about solar panels and hope it's ok if I ask advice about our upcoming choice of system.

We have had a quote from a local firm for 8 panels in two horizontal lines of four on our south facing virtually shade free roof, 8 panels is all we can have due to velux windows.

The quote is £6090 including the invertor and all the other bits and bobs. There is a warranty of 15 years on the invertor and 20 years in the panels, the panels they use are Pilkington Glass panels which are apparently better looking and more efficient, but are more expensive than some other makes.

We would have to finance this via their finance offer, which works out to be £65 per month over 15 years, the chap said that if we used 50% of eclectic during the day then our FIT would be £56 per month, with that plus the savings on our electric bill, the system would be self funding. We would aim to pay off the loan in full within two years so the interest on the loan isn't a big issue. He seemed to think that our electric bill of £63 per month would be halved, reading the posts on here I have my doubts.

This is what my quote says with the so called worst case scenario:

Total units generated kWh per year: 1722
Current FIT: 0.1339
Income from FIT: 230.57
Total units saved at 50% usage: 861
Estimated unit cost of electricity: £0.154
Savings from electricity used in year one: £132.89
Total units exported kWh per year: 861
Current FIT: 0.0485
Income from export tariff year one: £41.75


Total potential income in year one: £404.91
Total potential income from over twenty years: £10860.20
Total cost of system inc vat: £6090

The good points of this quote as I see are: using a local company, better looking panels albeit more expensive.

Bad points, is it over priced even allowing for locality and supposedly superior panels? Will I get anywhere near the projected FIT payments? And will I save a reasonable amount on my electric bill? We are about to get an Electric car so the environment is an obvious concern as of course is money saving.


Thank you very much for taking the time to read this, I look forward to your comments.

EricMears

CLVI wrote: »

We would have to finance this via their finance offer, which works out to be £65 per month over 15 years,

Why ? Their APR works out at just over 10%; if you asked your mortgage provider for an additional advance they'd only charge a couple of percent.

And as I'm sure others will point out, 6 grand for 8 panels is well above the best price you could hope to find.

Get a few more quotes.

theboylard

Quickly as I'm knackered and need my bed.... apologies for being very blunt but....!

1. Too expensive
2. Pilkington Glass panels? Really? New twist for me!
3. Finance - never a good choice in my opinion, but if it's the only way, get a loan or maybe even long term credit card??? I am not an advisor, check the numbers very carefully.
4. Electric saved - you will struggle to hit that - honestly.

First things first, they are trying it on, hope you haven't signed anything?

If you are serious, assess your reasons for wanting to install solar PV.
You are paying nearly twice the price of the install over the 15 years - excluding any final doc fees, etc., my calculator says thats £11700!!

Using their magical figures, your income over 20 years is £10860.20, which means, by their numbers, you'll make a loss of £839.80!!!

Local companies can be good, but in this case, I'd be running in the opposite direction.

If you really want to get solar panels, then get more quotes.

Everyone here is happy to help - if you can post your rough location, which way your roof/roofs face (South, or South East etc?) and the approx roof size then people will be able to offer suggestions and help.

Martyn1981

CLVI wrote: »

Hello everyone

Bad points, is it over priced even allowing for locality and supposedly superior panels? Will I get anywhere near the projected FIT payments? And will I save a reasonable amount on my electric bill? We are about to get an Electric car so the environment is an obvious concern as of course is money saving.

Quick run through.

Overpriced, yes.

Supposedly superior panels - loads of 'dodgy' PV salespersons claim superior panels, but they are much of a muchness. The only important factor when people use this 'claim' is that they are willing to use this 'claim' ...... alarm bells.

Projected FiTs - you can double check this very accurately. Try PVGIS for an excellent guestimation of annual generation. See section 5 of the PV FAQs for a walkthrough if you get confused.

Leccy savings - my blood started to rise as I read your post, as yet another salesperson talks about ridiculous savings. However, more by luck than judgement, the figure of £133 may not be miles out. I usually suggest £120 (£80 to £160). Smaller systems generate less, but you may therefore find that you use more of it, so savings aren't too closely linked to system size. But perhaps work on £100 and see how it goes.

Leccy savings (again) and an EV. Unless your car is parked at home when generating more than the house needs, then you won't save too much on the car charging. But, logically, having PV will almost certainly mean some savings compared to no PV, so they will help, and this will therefore almost certainly boost your leccy savings a bit more. Just to labour this point - with the purchase of an EV, I'd expect your leccy consumption to go up, but the PV will mean it goes up less than it otherwise would have, so whilst you may save, it doesn't mean your bill will be less. Does that make sense, I'm struggling with the explanation, and hoping not to mislead you.

Mart.

Martyn1981

CLVI wrote: »

Hello everyone

I've read a lot of very interesting posts on here about solar panels and hope it's ok if I ask advice about our upcoming choice of system.

We have had a quote from a local firm for 8 panels in two horizontal lines of four on our south facing virtually shade free roof, 8 panels is all we can have due to velux windows.

The quote is £6090 including the invertor and all the other bits and bobs.

Separate post as this may confuse the hell out of you, but have you considered using your north roof too, assuming you have one, and can fit panels?

This may sound crazy, but have a play with PVGIS. You will probably find that the north roof is between 50% and 70% efficient as a south roof. Note, roof pitch is important when considering off-south installs.

Since the south install will incur lots of fixed costs (scaffolders coming out, inverter, paperwork, internal wiring etc) then additional panels don't increase the cost proportionately.

If the additional cost of putting another 8 panels on the north roof 'only' adds 50% to 70% to the cost, then it actually works out. happy to go into much more depth if you're interested. But, see no reason why, after shopping around, you couldn't get a twin roof install of 16 panels for £6k or less. Always assuming the roof is suitable.

Mart.

saverbuyer

CLVI wrote: »

We are about to get an Electric car so the environment is an obvious concern as of course is money saving.

If those are two of your concerns, probably best not to get a electric car then.

CLVI

Thank for your feedback guys

The message I'm getting is, back away from this quote now!!

Message recieved and understood

Nothing has been signed, so I'm free to walk away.

We live in on the Norfolk coast and our roof is directly South facing, so virtually no shading.

I've had a play with PVGIS website.

Based on a 2 kWh system my total for the year South facing is: 2420 - 1340

North facing: 1080 - 655

Is it really feasible to put panels on a north facing roof? I'm open to that if its worth it.

Does anyone know of a reputable company who won't rip you off, if you're allowed to say..

Many thanks again

Martyn1981

CLVI wrote: »

I've had a play with PVGIS website.

Based on a 2 kWh system my total for the year South facing is: 2420 - 1340

North facing: 1080 - 655

Is it really feasible to put panels on a north facing roof? I'm open to that if its worth it.

Hi. Looking at your numbers, it'll certainly be a tough decision. Firstly your figure of 2,420kWh for south facing seemed too high, but 'live and learn' and a quick play of PVGIS and I was surprised just how good the Norfolk coast is. Must be down to cool air or something, so that's good news.

Is the large difference between south and north due to a steep roof? Is your pitch 35d+?

If your roof is due south, then that does admittedly make things harder when considering a north roof. To put it simply, as you move away, even a little from south, generation will drop a bit, and at the same time the opposing roof is moving away from north and picking up a bit. But due south v's due north will demonstrate the very biggest difference.

If your north roof will generate approx 540kWh/kWp then returns will be low, but it may still be worth asking for dual quotes (2kWp south and 4kWp S+N) so that you can compare cost v's income. Though I suspect the ROI will drop. But worth checking.

Also, and this might sound strange, but a lower ROI on a larger investment may be preferable to a higher ROI on a smaller investment. Eg £4k at 12% or £6k at 10%, you might want to take the opportunity to invest more (long term) even at a lower return. Admittedly this sounds odd (even to me as I'm typing it), but I think it makes sense.

To recap, please don't think I'm pushing the issue, with such a large difference in generation, it's probably doubtful a north roof will work in your circumstances, just throwing it out as something to consider.

If the north is out, then given your good generation possibilities, you might want to explore the use of higher efficiency panels. These cost more, quite a lot more, but going back to ROI's again, they may be a good investment, here's a couple of examples:

http://www.swithenbanks.co.uk/Solar_Photovoltaic_Equipment/1132543/BenQ_Mono_330W_Black_Frame_Panel.html

http://www.swithenbanks.co.uk/Solar_Photovoltaic_Equipment/1133154/Panasonic_HIT_N_Series_245W_Black_Frame_Hybrid_SJ25.html

Note that the prices and generation are different, but the cost per Wp is about the same. The Panasonics are smaller panels at approx 1.58m by 0.8m (v's 1.56m by 1.05m) so they may offer greater versatility if your roof space is tight and awkward, and you can therefore squeeze a few more on?

Lastly, with such good southerly generation potential, do you have any other options, shed roof, garage roof, chicken coop ...... dog kennel!

Mart.

EricMears

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Lastly, with such good southerly generation potential, do you have any other options, shed roof, garage roof, chicken coop ...... dog kennel!

Mart.

Or even, if you have (unshaded) space but don't already have a garden shed it might even be worth building a new shed, carport or whatever and roof it with solar panels.

gazapc

EricMears wrote: »

Or even, if you have (unshaded) space but don't already have a garden shed it might even be worth building a new shed, carport or whatever and roof it with solar panels.

Or if you have a big enough unshaded garden then how about a small ground mount system. Plenty of options.

If you don't make use of the north facing roofs then do consider getting quotes for higher rated panels, these can be upto 325W per panel compared to the 250 watts commonly seen to make best use of the available space.

CLVI

That's sounds very promising Martyn, thank so much.

Is there any way I can post pictures of our roof from my iPhone on here? We have a south facing garden room with a solid roof that we could easily fit a couple of panels on around the velux, although the pitch is shallower.

Smaller panels sounds good, if we can fit them around our velux windows.

Our roof is steep, we had our loft converted a few years back and the headroom is good inside.

I'm a barber and a good number of my clients have had panels fitted here in North Norfolk and get good returns, but strangely none of them recommended I use their installers..

Thank you

Chris