can csa reopen a closed case!

LILLYB

Can any one advise please?

Can CSA open a closed case?

I met my partner in March 2005 and moved in with him, he is the NRP (none resident parent)

As soon as I moved in PWC (Parent with children) went to CSA and enquired how much NRP had to pay. NRP was sent forms in May 2005, CSA noted the forms on their computer systems in July 2005.

So the start date for the CSA claim would be March.

In August 2005 PWC contacted CSA and told them she wanted to close the case as she had come to a private agreement with NRP she did 'NOT want csa to check the forms to do a calculation'

In August 2005 PWC was contacted by CSA by phone to check that she still wanted the case closed, PWC said yes!

CSA contacted NRP by phone and told him the case was closing as PWC did not want CSA involvement.

CSA then sent letters to PWC and NRP to say case closed!

NRP has paid PWC a quarter of his wage since 2003, he has paid for uniforms and holidays on top of his maintenance!

In 2006 NRP got a harassment order out on pwc. PWC stopped collecting her child maintenance and stopped NRP seeing his children.

In 2006 PWC contacted CSA and asked if they could now collect payments, no arrears owed, confirmed by PWC.

CSA sent letters to NRP asking for wage slips. In 2007 CSA put a deduction of earnings on NRPs wage. NRP contacted CSA as he had NEVER received any letters.
CSA then admitted sending 'all' letters to the wrong address.
NRP stated he had no forms and requested the CSA send forms. CSA refused and stated.......

A case was opened in 2005, at that time we did not review the forms, it was an error on our part unfortunately, so we have now assessed on those forms and back dated to 2005, the case was not closed!

NRP has complained all these years, CSA stating PWC did not ask for the case to be closed!

We now have the DATA FILE! Clearly states case closed and PWC did not want CSA involved, even before we had chance to calculate payments!


So, can csa reopen a closed case with no arrears, as PWC did not even have the claim assessed? or did CSA have to send new claim forms to NRP to open a new claim in 2006?


If CSA can not open an old case 'no arrears' and so therefore there is still no case open can we claim all money back that NRP has had to pay through the CSA?

Fission

The PWC can make a fresh claim any time she likes.

Is that what you meant, or do you mean that the previous case closure was over-ridden, effectively meaning that the closure was as though it had never happened?

The two scenarios are quite different but equally possible. Closing a case is an appealable decision which can be overturned if an officer or a tribunal decides that closing the case was a mistake, or was done under a misapprehension as to the facts.

LILLYB

csa opened a case jan 2005
pwc contacted csa to close june case
nrp filled in forms sent back july 2005
csa closed case with out assessing forms as pwc did not want csa involved in August 2005

csa took wages on deo in 2007 stating PWC wanted maintenance back from 2005 when first case was open.

CSA admit all letters sent to NRP from 2006 - 2007 were sent to wrong address.

NRP was never sent forms for a new case to be opened as old case closed NO ARREARS, NO ASSESSMENT HAD BEEN DONE.

NRP paid maintenance in private agreement from 2004 until CSA contacted NRP via DEO which is first he knew of a claim! Still csa sent no new forms to fill in the CSA reopened the closed case that had no assessment done and NO arrears!

Nothing to do with 'PWC can open a case when she wants to'

can CSA re open a case that was closed? if answer no, then no new forms sent for new case, is this CSA breach of policy?

Fission

LILLYB wrote: »

csa opened a case jan 2005
pwc contacted csa to close june case

Just a moment.

Are the jan case and the june case meant to be one and the same?

If not, how many different applications were there (and does it matter)?

LILLYB wrote: »

nrp filled in forms sent back july 2005
csa closed case with out assessing forms as pwc did not want csa involved in August 2005

Do you mean that she withdrew her application in August 2005, right back to the beginning of that case?

LILLYB wrote: »

csa took wages on deo in 2007 stating PWC wanted maintenance back from 2005 when first case was open.

So had she changed her mind about her closure request of August 2005 (assuming she ever did ask for the case to be closed)?

LILLYB wrote: »

CSA admit all letters sent to NRP from 2006 - 2007 were sent to wrong address.

That may or may not be important. The law only requires that the letters are sent to the last known address of the parent concerned.

If the CSA had to prove that the intended recipient had received the letter and read it, the scheme would not be workable for certain parents. That's why the law only states "last known address".

Were the letters sent to the last known address?

[That's a not a question I need or necessarily want an answer to; it's just one for you to think about and I hope it helps.]

LILLYB wrote: »

NRP was never sent forms for a new case to be opened as old case closed NO ARREARS, NO ASSESSMENT HAD BEEN DONE.

If a case was re-opened (and it seems at least as though it might have been), there is no need to send out new documentation.

LILLYB wrote: »

NRP paid maintenance in private agreement from 2004 until CSA contacted NRP via DEO which is first he knew of a claim! Still csa sent no new forms to fill in the CSA reopened the closed case that had no assessment done and NO arrears! Nothing to do with 'PWC can open a case when she wants to'

can CSA re open a case that was closed?

Yes, in certain circumstances. I explained that last time.

LILLYB wrote: »

if answer no, then no new forms sent for new case, is this CSA breach of policy?

But the answer isn't "no". It's "yes".

LILLYB

pwc enquired 2005 to open case, csa sent forms to NRP.
PWC then contacted CSA to close the case, she did not want CSA involved and was happy with a private arrangement! CSA 'closed the case' and notified PWC and NRP case 'closed'

NRP was paying private no CSA involvement from 2004.

In 2006 unknown to NRP the PWC opened a 'NEW' case, but CSA 'REOPENED' the closed case from 2004 WHY? there were no arrears, NRP always paid private arrangement!

In 2007 unknown to NRP CSA took money on DOE, he was not informed by CSA. NRP contacted CSA to be told they were sorry but they had sent NRP letters from 2006 -- 2007 to an address he had NEVER lived at! He was still living in the same house that CSA contacted him at in 2005.

Data file clearly states CASE CLOSED 2005

Data file states tried to open a closed case in 2006, 2007 then states case to be open in 2008?

So therefore NRP had no knowledge of a NEW case opened until 2007, yet CSA opened a new case in 2008 and did not inform NRP that the case had not opened on the csa system in 2006 due to CSA not being able to open the case! The case went clerical in 2008 and that is when the case actually opened.
It is all in the Data file

So in what certain circumstances can CSA open a closed case? There were no arrears.

LILLYB

Yes! PWC Withdrew case in August 2005 to the beginning of the case January 2005!

PWC contacted CSA 2006 and wanted to open a case, CSA told her that first contact was January 2005 so took it right back to 2005 and decided to assess on the forms that they were told not to do in 2005.

PWC claimed she had not been paid since 2005 but she lied, NRP kept cheque receipts but not the cash, so NRP was paying up until 2007 but CSA made NRP repay from 2005.

Is this CSA policy to reopen a closed case that a PWC wanted to close, and it was closed!

HoneyNutLoop

LILLYB wrote: »

Yes! PWC Withdrew case in August 2005 to the beginning of the case January 2005!

PWC contacted CSA 2006 and wanted to open a case, CSA told her that first contact was January 2005 so took it right back to 2005 and decided to assess on the forms that they were told not to do in 2005.

PWC claimed she had not been paid since 2005 but she lied, NRP kept cheque receipts but not the cash, so NRP was paying up until 2007 but CSA made NRP repay from 2005.

Is this CSA policy to reopen a closed case that a PWC wanted to close, and it was closed!

From the time in 2005 when the CSA sent the forms to your partner til August 2005 when the PWC asked for it to be closed, legally a calculation should have been put in place. Closure can only go from the date the PWC requests it, it can't be applied retrospectively. So, from what you lay out above in your posts, you have a period in 2005 where your partner will owe some money.

When the PWC reapplied in 2006, the CSA will recycle the old case number if possible, but there would be a gap from 2005 to 2006 where he wasn't being charged anything because the case is closed.

The date of reopening in 2006 will go from when the CSA started to try to contact your partner again. Fission is correct when he/she says the fact your partner didn't live at the address anymore makes no difference. The law says letters/forms go to the last know or notified address.

This has been the subject of appeal to Upper Tribunal before, and the appellant lost on the same point you are making "but I no longer lived there". So long as the CSA can show they attempted to re-verify the address through the various government/trace systems they had available at the time, you're out of luck.

[Text removed by MSE Forum Team]

LILLYB

[Text removed by MSE Forum Team]


NRP has never, ever lived at the address where CSA sent letters. NRP was still living at the same address CSA wrote to in 2005, he had lived there for 18 yrs.

NRP paid maintenance to PWC from 2004 continually, never missed a payment.

PWC told CSA to cancel her application in June 2005, she did not want a case open. CSA closed the case August 2005 stating PWC does not want a case open.

In 2006 PWC made a new application, no contact was made to NRP as letters were sent to an unknown address up to 2007, unknown to NRP

NRP owed nothing to PWC he paid a quarter of his wage to PWC monthly. PWC lied she had not received any money, which NRP proved he paid cheques, but could not prove cash payments.

In 2007 NRP was told he had arrears back dated from January 2005 when PWC first contacted them, this was for monthly cash payments because he could not prove he paid cash as well as his monthly cheque.

I thought as I have read, a case has to be open and contact with NRP has to be established, before CSA can claim payments for PWC.
As there was never a case open and it is in the data file as going clerical and case opened in 2008, was it legal for CSA to be involved?

justontime

If you hope to challenge this maybe NACSA could give you some advice. I'm not going to comment on the facts you have set out because I don't know enough to be able to help you. I feel your frustration, but from what you have told us I think there is a liability (as explained by HoneyNutLoop).

If your husband had never lived at the address that the letters were sent to and the address was not connected to him in any way then perhaps you have grounds to challenge that, but you need expert advice on that. My husband had a similar situation (his ex had deliberately given a false address for him to CSA). I don't want to reveal all the details of that situation as it isn't relevant to your circumstances, but after a very long fight we were able to show that he had no connection with that address and CSA could not rely on it. However, that was only the first step towards proving that my husband was not liable to pay the £17,000 of alleged arrears that had appeared out of nowhere. It took a lot of other evidence as well and we went through months of hell. Others haven't been so lucky and many have had to 'double pay' causing them great hardship.

LILLYB

Just on time

I have been fighting for 10yrs and now have my data file which proves case closed pwc did not want a case open. NRP always paid so it was an almighty shock to be told arrears then have to pay again. Pwc stopped access as she also told csa children did not stay, she would get more money.
This has caused so much upset for NRP and his children, they are grown up now and have seen what lies their mother has told and are not happy with her, in fact this is also the 3rd time she is claiming CB when child has left education, meaning NRP is forced to pay child maintenance until cb is closed, CSA say NRP can get money back owed from pwc weekly .

I am not angry, frustrated with the system, but not with replies, thank you for the help so far every one.