If there was compulsory training for cyclists, would that put you off cycling?

Throbbe

brat wrote: »

So it makes perfect sense to maximise the arc of a bend. It permits maximum smoothness at a speed, or allows the maximum safe speed for a bend.
There is no conflict of understanding - I can't imagine why you think there is.

Not to mention maximising forward visibility.

I find it unsuprising that mods thinks he knows more than everyone else about advanced driving techniques too.

modsandmockers

My understanding of road safety is that any manoeuvre needs to be safe, legal, and in some way useful/necessary/worthwhile (or any other word with a similar meaning). Modifying the line is an extremely useful technique on a race-track, or in a police pursuit vehicle, but otherwise offers nothing ‘useful’ except an adrenalin buzz.

On the other hand, a cyclist’s primary riding position can be an extremely useful way to make sure that a following motorist is aware of the cyclist’s presence. Once that objective has been achieved, it is no longer ‘useful’ to remain in the motorist’s path. It is potentially far more useful to move to the left in order to allow the motorist to overtake. This is made clear in CycleCraft.

Norman_Castle

modsandmockers wrote: »

My understanding of road safety is that any manoeuvre needs to be safe, legal, and in some way useful/necessary/worthwhile (or any other word with a similar meaning). Modifying the line is an extremely useful technique on a race-track, or in a police pursuit vehicle, but otherwise offers nothing ‘useful’ except an adrenalin buzz.

Moving to the outside of a bend increases the distance you can see ahead. Its the opposite of taking the racing line where speed is limited by grip. On the road speed is limited by safety.. Its very useable for motorcycles who have more available spare lane width.

brat

modsandmockers wrote: »

My understanding of road safety is that any manoeuvre needs to be safe, legal, and in some way useful/necessary/worthwhile (or any other word with a similar meaning). Modifying the line is an extremely useful technique on a race-track, or in a police pursuit vehicle, but otherwise offers nothing ‘useful’ except an adrenalin buzz.

Forget any notion of driving at high speed, or on the edge. Maximising the arc of a bend safely is the best way to ensure maximum vehicle sympathy and passenger comfort.
If the centre lane arc of a 5 metre lane in a 60 degree bend has a radius of 100 metres, that radius could be extended to something like 180 metres by taking the 'racing' line. If passenger comfort and vehicle sympathy rely on lateral g forces of less than 0.2g, a car sticking to the centre lane would have a maximum comfort speed of 31mph while maximising the arc would allow that comfortable speed to increase to 42mph.

On the other hand, a cyclist’s primary riding position can be an extremely useful way to make sure that a following motorist is aware of the cyclist’s presence. Once that objective has been achieved, it is no longer ‘useful’ to remain in the motorist’s path. It is potentially far more useful to move to the left in order to allow the motorist to overtake. This is made clear in CycleCraft.

Wow! That penny might have finally dropped!! :eek:

The other main benefit feature of the primary position is to control (take the lane) for your own safety when an overtake is not going to be safe for you.
How close are we to agreement on that score?

modsandmockers

brat wrote: »

If passenger comfort and vehicle sympathy rely on lateral g forces of less than 0.2g, a car sticking to the centre lane would have a maximum comfort speed of 31mph while maximising the arc would allow that comfortable speed to increase to 42mph

In what way does an increase of speed around a bend contribute to road safety?

On the highway, the correct procedure when approaching a bend is to adopt an appropriate position within your lane, and slow to an appropriate speed. Crossing to the wrong side of the road and/or spitting gravel out of the gutter is not conducive to road safety.

brat

modsandmockers wrote: »

In what way does an increase of speed around a bend contribute to road safety?

On the highway, the correct procedure when approaching a bend is to adopt an appropriate position within your lane, and slow to an appropriate speed. Crossing to the wrong side of the road and/or spitting gravel out of the gutter is not conducive to road safety.

I don't think you read a word I wrote.

modsandmockers

brat wrote: »

I don't think you read a word I write

I stopped doing that long ago.

esuhl

modsandmockers wrote: »

In what way does an increase of speed around a bend contribute to road safety?

Taking the line that allows you to drive at the maximum safe speed will be safer at any given speed (all other things being equal).

modsandmockers wrote: »

On the other hand, a cyclist’s primary riding position can be an extremely useful way to make sure that a following motorist is aware of the cyclist’s presence. Once that objective has been achieved, it is no longer ‘useful’ to remain in the motorist’s path. It is potentially far more useful to move to the left in order to allow the motorist to overtake.

Wrong, again. There's one particular road near me, a long, steep downhill stretch of three-lane 60mph-limit road -- two oncoming lanes, and a single lane in the direction I'm travelling.

If I hug the edge of the road, drivers don't pay attention to oncoming traffic in the adjacent lane, and dangerously try to overtake regardless. If I stay in the centre of the lane, drivers are forced to check that there is space in the next lane to overtake.

Not taking the primary position, in this case, would be more dangerous for everyone. It avoids me being side-swiped by a car travelling at 50mph, or a collision between cars travelling at a combined speed of 100mph.

modsandmockers

esuhl wrote: »

There's one particular road near me

One particular road, right? What does that tell us about roads in general?

brat

modsandmockers wrote: »

I stopped doing that long ago.

Which is one of the reasons your answers don't make sense.