Ludicrous PCN from Vehicle Control Services Ltd.

HermanMunster

Hi all,

I recently received an NTK from Vehicle Control Services Ltd for my car being parked while in a work car park. There is a monthly salary deduction for a parking permit which was clearly displayed at the time, yet they've gone with 'failure to display a valid permit' as the reason for the PCN. It was apparently a windscreen ticket and the NTK has now arrived. The employer has been completely unhelpful, saying it's now 'out of their hands' (... I'm not surprised!).

I suspect what they are going to say is that the car was parked in a different part of the car park to normal and that my permit wasn't valid for that area, though there are absolutely no signs to suggest that's the case. I have photos to show this. The permit is a work one, no mention of VCS or any other PPC anywhere on it. The NTK specifies the location in an entirely nebulous way, which may be said place of work or any of about 1000 other locations in the UK; certainly nothing to suggest it relates either specifically to said place of work or that particular area of the car park.

So, my thoughts:

1) The NTK fails to meet the criteria specified in paragraph 8 of POFA 2012 because it fails to specify the 'relevant land'. As keeper, not driver, I cannot possibly ascertain for definite from the NTK where this is alleged to have occurred, though it may or may not be said place of work.

2) If it did occur at said place of work then there was a valid permit (no signs whatsoever to suggest otherwise) in place. In which case the NTK is baseless.

3) If it was supposedly somewhere else with a similar name then my car was never parked there, so the NTK is baseless (note they haven't provided any photos).

I've drafted a response to VCS based on the template in the Newbies thread, and included some bits about a permit being displayed and, therefore, I'll be complaining to DVLA about them obtaining my details without reasonable cause. I fully expect this to be rejected, then I guess I can't really 'appeal' to IAS because, as keeper, I haven't been told the specifics about where this is supposed to have occurred. So I'll be ignoring the letters from the debt collectors for a while.

Any thoughts/suggestions from the regulars would be greatly appreciated, especially if I've got completely the wrong end of the stick about all this. Be nice to get it knocked on the head sooner rather than later. Many thanks.

Captain_Leaky

Yup, they are speculating upon getting an easy hundred quid out of you for issuing a worthless piece of paper.

If the debt collectors write to you, write back with:

Dear sirs.

Further to your letter dates dd/dd/yyy, reference xxxxxx

This matter is in dispute.

I deny any alleged debt to you. Refer the matter back to your client.

Further contact from you regarding this matter will be considered harassment and may be referred to the appropriate authorities and your trade body for their action.

Regards [just print name or insert a squiggle]

I just love Gan's letter-writing style when it comes to dealing with these people.

Umkomaas

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

Yup, they are speculating upon getting an easy hundred quid out of you for issuing a worthless piece of paper.

If the debt collectors write to you, write back with:

Dear sirs.

Further to your letter dates dd/dd/yyy, reference xxxxxx

This matter is in dispute.

I deny any alleged debt to you. Refer the matter back to your client.

Further contact from you regarding this matter will be considered harassment and may be referred to the appropriate authorities and your trade body for their action.

Regards [just print name or insert a squiggle]

I just love Gan's letter-writing style when it comes to dealing with these people.

Gan's letters normally conclude, 'Don't contact me again!'

Legend!

Captain_Leaky

I'm getting the hang of this anti-carky-parky-malarky at long last!

When I first experienced the sensation of getting one of these pesky things, I admit to panicking but having spent almost 10 weeks studying this PPC thing, and the underhand tactics they use to defraud folk, I am now even more determined to never ever give in to these thieves.

Umkomaas

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

I'm getting the hang of this anti-carky-parky-malarky at long last!

When I first experienced the sensation of getting one of these pesky things, I admit to panicking but having spent almost 10 weeks studying this PPC thing, and the underhand tactics they use to defraud folk, I am now even more determined to never ever give in to these thieves.

Keep working with us! The more informed regulars fighting this fight, the more sense will be knocked into the system.

Look forward to more of your infotmed posts, helping others who don't yet know the landscape.

HO87

If you are going to write a letter to any of scum sucking debt collector then make sure you state that you deny any debt at all - not just deny you owe the DCA a debt.

Personally I have never seen any benefit from writing to a DCA. Generally it will go quiet for a while and then they pile it all on again.

HermanMunster

Thanks for the comments. Looks like I'm thinking along the right sort of lines. It's so ridiculous I think I'll be having some fun with it. Will keep you posted with updates.... be nice to have more evidence of what a shambolic con VCS/IPC/IAS are so that others don't fall for it.

HermanMunster

Looking at some of the recent threads it seems that any challenge to VCS/IAS will be rejected so you end up at the ignore everything for 6 years except solicitors' letters or a court summons stage. I'm perfectly happy to do this, and to go to court if need be, but....

I'll almost certainly be moving in the next year or 2 and I'm not keen on the idea I might end up with a CCJ against me for a court summons I never knew anything about because the papers were served at an old address. And then have to pay £150 to have it set aside. Any ideas to avoid this? Thanks.

peter_the_piper

Give HR (or whoever is in charge of the car park) a blast for having to jump through all these hoops when you complied with the (your) companies rules.

bazster

HermanMunster wrote: »

Looking at some of the recent threads it seems that any challenge to VCS/IAS will be rejected so you end up at the ignore everything for 6 years except solicitors' letters or a court summons stage. I'm perfectly happy to do this, and to go to court if need be, but....

I'll almost certainly be moving in the next year or 2 and I'm not keen on the idea I might end up with a CCJ against me for a court summons I never knew anything about because the papers were served at an old address. And then have to pay £150 to have it set aside. Any ideas to avoid this? Thanks.

Simples. When you move write to VCS giving their PCN number, notifying them of your change of address, and telling them you have a proof of posting for this letter. That's all, say nothing else. And get the (free) proof of posting from the P.O.

If the way they've described the location is really that vague, be careful in anything you send to them not to give away that you do actually know what it's about. You are in complete ignorance as to the basis of their speculative invoice and you cannot be expected to consider an invoice which so manifestly fails to explain what it is for.

You might even try an IAS appeal along the same lines.

Umkomaas

1. Set up a re-direct service with the PO. OK, I know 6 years is unreasonable, but certainly for an affordable stretch of time.

2. Get to know the new occupants of the property and ask they re-direct any mail received in your name. Provide them with pre-printed sticky labels with 'Please re-direct to:............' You can print these yourself using Avery self adhesive labels (or similar brands) or get some done at ProntoPrint or an ebay seller - shouldn't be that expensive. Make sure you give the new occupants plenty.

3. The jury's out on whether to tell the PPC of your change of address, might disturb an otherwise sleeping dog. However, if you've formally notified them (keep copy of the notification and get free certificate of posting), they won't have a leg to stand on should they issue papers to your former address.

There's no absolute way of avoiding the scenario you describe above, but I hope my suggestions help.