Moral dilemma - being offered too much work!

elljay

Bit of a moral dilemma and I wondered what other lovely people here would do.

I work in a small independent shop and last year when I was desperately trying to stave off bankruptcy I offered to do as many hours on the shop floor, admin, website stuff from home, cleaning - basically any extra hours I could get. Several weeks I worked well over 50 hours (I'm a 'senior citizen' and it was pretty hard). However I had to admit defeat/exhaustion and became bankrupt. I'm still working more hours than I would want and have a sizeable IPA.

The owner won't take on any new staff and the poor person doing the rotas is finding it increasingly hard to fill holidays/sickness etc. Because I was so desperately willing last year she is coming to me a lot and my hours are creeping up. I have said no a few times but feel sorry for her (she has to work the shifts herself if she can't find anyone and has a young family and really doesn't want to) and also guilty that when I was down to my last 50p (yes really, god when I think back!!!) they provided work for me. This weekend I'm working full days plus extra and they are providing a taxi for me as bus times don't coincide. Again really good of them but I don't want to work!

My IPA has been averaged but nearly every month I've been above average and although I really want to repay the money to my creditors these working hours are taking over my life and to be honest, I don't now need the money (It will all go towards my IPA anyway) and would far rather have the time.

Bit of a ramble but can anyone advise? I appreciate I must sound really ungrateful when others struggle to find work! Thanks - EJ

Jagraf

Could you meet them half way? If they give you too many hours you will burn out anyway, but if you are well it might be nice to continue helping them out?

Is the person doing the rota the owner?

Blackbeard_of_Perranporth

Learn to say NO.

moneyistooshorttomention

Personally I would take whatever hours I could get (without running myself into the ground) in order to deal with paying the debt off asap.

Once you've got into that sort of agegroup, then you never know what might come up preventing you doing so...so I would be getting it in when I could.

The more hours you do...sooner its off your plate and you can get on with life as normal.

Add in that those people helped you out when you needed it and...yep...I would say there is the obligation to help out back.

The thing is too that your creditors will want their lives/finances back to normal asap, so that they can get on with their lives/businesses without having someone owing them a debt any longer than they can help.

mwarby

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

Personally I would take whatever hours I could get (without running myself into the ground) in order to deal with paying the debt off asap.

.

Shes bankrupt, so whats this repaying debt ? The IPA will be taking all disposable income regardless for 3 years. I would take the hours i could do comfortably and no more, whats the point of retiring a working yourself silly just to line the pockets of the OR(in many if not most bankruptcies the creditors end up with nothing, the OR fees being so high) ?

luvchocolate

I have to agree with the above post, I am in your age group and I know how tiring it is working full time plus...You have to do what is right for you, and that means taking care of yourself.

Work the hours you can manage, take care x

TheGardener

I agree with most posters - set the hours you believe are right for you and encourage the person who does the rotas to do the same - if the owner 'wont' employ more staff - then they'll have to shorten their opening hours won't they. This is the owners problem - not yours. Making yourself ill though working more hours will not solve anyone's problems.

alastairq

Hi..I,too, am of pensionable age, and work full time..with overtime. However, now and again, I have to 'call a halt'.....just to catch up with myself.

It is all about human nature.

You feel an obligation to the employer. Whether that obligation is reasonable or not will really depend on your personal relationship with the employer?

On the other hand, the person organising rotas has a difficult job [not your problem, really....]....and, since you were obligingly helpful in the past, they will tend to adopt the easiest course of action to overcome a problem.... & contact you?

However, be under no illusions.

If you say 'NO', now & again, ....or even, every time....the work will be covered..one way or another.

If it IS covered by the other person, [with the young family, etc] then please, don't feel too bad about it.

They themselves took the job, on that understanding.

They, too, can learn to say 'NO' ?

Consider this....whilst no employee is irreplaceable....think about how much skill, experience and knowledge of your particular work, you bring to your employer?

Just think, how long would it take, for your employer to bring a new employee up to the same standard of skill & expertise....in that job, as you? Perhaps it is this realisation by your employer of how difficult it is to replace a long-standing experienced employee?

The work will always be there....if you need it.

moneyistooshorttomention

But if the IPA is taking all disposable income...presumably they are doing so because OP still owes money to people don't they? (ie there is still money that hasn't been paid back):think:.

I don't know how bankruptcy provisions are....but if you still owe money then you still owe money and this seems to be a good chance to pay some back?

alastairq

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

But if the IPA is taking all disposable income...presumably they are doing so because OP still owes money to people don't they? (ie there is still money that hasn't been paid back):think:.

No..that is not how bankruptcy works at all.

What you have said above, is akin to being Divorced, yet one is still married because there are family ties [kids, property, etc?}

Bankruptcy is a very powerful legal instrument.

When one petitions for BAnkruptcy [or, is petitioned, if done so by a creditor]...one's entire assets [whether property cash..or, in some cases, an element of surplus income]...are controlled and realised, by the Official Receiver.

The Official Receiver then has to agree to a Statement of Affairs, which is the BAnkrupt's statement of monies required to support a 'reasonable standard of living'...

Property assets may, or may not, be realised...the seizing of one's house is not definite..far from it.

A car can be exempted-as-an-asset....there are rules.

The payments you refer to...[an Individual Payment Agreement]...in this instance, based upon whatever surplus of income has been identified, and agreed [between the BAnkrupt, and the OR]...simply go into the BAnkruptcy estate.

From this estate, the first claim [when it is all finalised..which may amount to several years]....is by the Insolvency Service [the Official Receiver]....and in most cases seen on this forum, that is probably the greatest amount]....for the costs of administering the BAnkruptcy.

This is done because the Insolvency Service, a government body, has to be self-financing, so that Insolvency does not impinge upon the public purse in general.

Also, if an Insolvency Practitioner has been engaged by the OR to deal with the disposal of property, then their fees are also deducted first..[they are commercial in operation, so need to show a profit for themselves]

When all costs have been deducted from the Bankruptcy estate, then, and only then is a report generated for the known creditors [who have to declare by a certain date, and prove the debt,].....with any claim being of the order of 'pence-in-the-pound'....often, nothing at all!!

The IPA [surplus-based] is not a 're-payment' of any sort whatsoever.

Because primarily it is an agreement [ie, the amount to be paid is agreed between OR and the Bankrupt]... and is variable throughout the 3 years it runs...up, down, or even zeroed altogether, dependant on any changes of circumstance that occur to the BAnkrupt.

Creditors have no say in the matter whatsoever!

The BAnkrupt actually only remains so, whilst Undischarged.

ANd that [except in certain instances] lasts for one year, when Automatic Discharge [from the restrictions imposed by BAnkruptcy] occurs.

In return, the BAnkrupt..[or, ex-BAnkrupt by now]....is protected by Law from any actions past creditors [or their successors] may attempt to make.


At no time, during the BAnkruptcy period, is the BAnkrupt making, or allowed to make, by Regulation, any form of payment to any past creditor.

The payments in question here are made solely into the BAnkruptcy estate....whether there is anything left over for creditors will be a moot point....and is of absolutely no concern [in Law] of the BAnkrupt!

TheGardener

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

But if the IPA is taking all disposable income...presumably they are doing so because OP still owes money to people don't they? (ie there is still money that hasn't been paid back):think:.

I don't know how bankruptcy provisions are....but if you still owe money then you still owe money and this seems to be a good chance to pay some back?

No - No - no - that is not how BR works :eek: Once you are made BR, there are no debts for the OP to pay back. BR is not an easy way out but there would be little point anyone doing it if they still had debts. There is an easy guide to BR on the welcome post on this board.