No country for young men — UK generation gap widens

kwmlondon

setmefree2 wrote: »

Of course you will - that just sounds like an excuse for not trying. I wouldn't listen to that !!!!!! from my kids.

Sounds more like your wanting to believe that all your success is deserved and bestowed upon you because you are just, well, you're just worth it. And all those who don't achieve the same success are not as worthy as you. Maybe they don't work as hard or just haven't been as clever as you. I don't know.

What I see around is is rising house prices. Rising rent prices. More zero hour contracts. Fewer good jobs. Rising university fees. More ultra-rich. Fewer middle-level jobs. Falling salaries. Rising living costs.

I'm not being partisan about this, I really respected that old-school tory approach of "work hard, be rewarded for it" shopkeepers, small-business owners, the kind of people who made a better life for themselves and their families, but the conservative party is led by people who all played rugby together at the same schools. They inherited all their success but can't deal with the concept that their success is pure luck, it's not very nice to think that somebody somewhere else has worked a damn sight harder than you but gotten far less just because your dad put you through the right school and you knew the right people when you went for the job interview.

All I see is evidence to show that social mobility is falling. Aspiration is being crushed and it makes me despair.

I like to think I worked hard for the things I have, but being realistic there are young people working as hard as I did but getting much less out of it. I was just lucky and the luck is running out for the generations coming though.

And no, none of this is bitterness. I don't want anything else for myself, I'm worried about society and the generations coming through.

CLAPTON

kwmlondon wrote: »

Sounds more like your wanting to believe that all your success is deserved and bestowed upon you because you are just, well, you're just worth it. And all those who don't achieve the same success are not as worthy as you. Maybe they don't work as hard or just haven't been as clever as you. I don't know.

What I see around is is rising house prices. Rising rent prices. More zero hour contracts. Fewer good jobs. Rising university fees. More ultra-rich. Fewer middle-level jobs. Falling salaries. Rising living costs.

I'm not being partisan about this, I really respected that old-school tory approach of "work hard, be rewarded for it" shopkeepers, small-business owners, the kind of people who made a better life for themselves and their families, but the conservative party is led by people who all played rugby together at the same schools. They inherited all their success but can't deal with the concept that their success is pure luck, it's not very nice to think that somebody somewhere else has worked a damn sight harder than you but gotten far less just because your dad put you through the right school and you knew the right people when you went for the job interview.

All I see is evidence to show that social mobility is falling. Aspiration is being crushed and it makes me despair.

I like to think I worked hard for the things I have, but being realistic there are young people working as hard as I did but getting much less out of it. I was just lucky and the luck is running out for the generations coming though.

And no, none of this is bitterness. I don't want anything else for myself, I'm worried about society and the generations coming through.

you are clearly a half empty person and no amount of reality will change your black irrational outlook.


outside London and the SE, house prices aren't a concern

you may have preferred only 5% of the population having a free Uni education (mainly the children of the rich people and mainly male) to 'graduate tax ' approach with opportunities for all.

most young people do not feel crushed

westernpromise

kwmlondon wrote: »

What I see around is is rising house prices. Rising rent prices. More zero hour contracts. Fewer good jobs. Rising university fees. More ultra-rich. Fewer middle-level jobs. Falling salaries. Rising living costs.

What I see around is tech billionaires aged 19; the opportunity to go work in any of 27 European countries without needing more than a passport; more access to university than there has ever been; the cheapest mortgage rates ever, that have now persisted for 6 years and can be locked in for 10 more. I see cars that are better for less money - a Mk 1 Golf GTI with no equipment cost £3,372 in 1976, which is nearly £40,000 in money of today; but today, you can buy a Mk VII Golf GTI for less than £27k and it will be better. A 24" tube colour television (which was huge) cost £300 in the early 70s, which would be about £4,000 today; but today, you can get a 75" flat screen TV for that money. Even ignoring all the new technology, the same stuff is both better and cheaper.

your dad put you through the right school and you knew the right people when you went for the job interview.

I'm always fascinated by this claim.

I went to a minor private school and Oxbridge, yet at no stage have I ever obtained a job based on knowing people from the right school. I am in touch with exactly two people that I know from school. One's a washed up beach bum in Spain and the other scrapes a self-employed living. I have never encountered anybody in work that I knew from university. In short, I have not and have never had one single acquaintance from my education who has been in the slightest way useful to me jobwise at any point. Not one. My experience is that this is typical.

What is perhaps the case is that I think higher of Oxbridge graduates than some others. Then again, so does most of industry, regardless of where one went oneself.

The blame for underachievement lies squarely with those parents and teachers who convinced children that excellence was not for the likes of them, and that settling for mediocrity and envy were their due lot in life.

Graham_Devon

kwmlondon wrote: »

You mistake my concern for younger people for being a young person. I have a house in central London, I'm married and I've got a final salary pension. I've got a decent job in a secure sector, postgraduate qualifications and - truth be told - I'm allright Jack. Thank you very much. But I look at my own life and the luck I've had (and by luck I mean that my hard work and education paid off) and I don't see people 10, 15, 20 years younger having the same opportunities as I did.

Can I just point out that this viewpoint is extremely welcome (IMHO) and one that I do actually see out and about. not a view prevelant on this board, but certainly prevelant when you see this sort of generational stuff on the TV.

You "stick your neck on the line" (for want of a better description) on this board for saying it, but I honestly believe your view represents large swathes of your peers. They just aren't on this board.

Loughton_Monkey

kwmlondon wrote: »

You mistake my concern for younger people for being a young person. I have a house in central London, I'm married and I've got a final salary pension. I've got a decent job in a secure sector, postgraduate qualifications and - truth be told - I'm allright Jack. Thank you very much. But I look at my own life and the luck I've had (and by luck I mean that my hard work and education paid off) and I don't see people 10, 15, 20 years younger having the same opportunities as I did......

I don't know your age, exactly, but if we start by zooming in on those 20 years younger than you. I'm guessing that they could be in the 35/45 year old range.

If you are looking at incomes (less tax) received by your generation at age 40 with that of an actual 40 year old now, then there are a wealth of facts to prove conclusively that they have earned far more wealth than you. How they used it is a different matter.

If, on the other hand, you are comparing your present wealth with that of the 40 year old including a projection of the next 20 years, then how do you know what 'goodies' may, or may not befall that guy over the next 20 years?

I have no children. For years, my wife & I's joint wills were written to leave whatever we don't spend to a series of nieces & nephews (and their children if any). Recently we changed it to send the whole caboodle to charity since there is not a single 'deserving' case amongst the lot of them. Most of them will make our own substantial wealth look tiny! They include a company owner, a very high flying marketing exec., etc. without a single university degree amongst them! Wealth and income far exceeding my own at that age but with a noticeable disregard for buying property (preferring to rent) or to contribute to pension (forgoing the 10% employer contribution).

Running_Horse

In the late 70s-early 80s, people said an entire generation of school leavers would be consigned to the dole and never achieve anything in life. How did this "lost" generation fare in life? Most guys in their late 40s-early 50s I know seem to be doing OK. Mostly homeowners, a few council tenants, some running small businesses, a couple of redundancies not unusual, most with families, one or two spectacular success stories. Maybe it's the circles I move in, but nobody I know spent their whole life out of work. It's probably fair to say most got rewards back from life that match the effort they put in.

setmefree2

Running_Horse wrote: »

In the late 70s-early 80s, people said an entire generation of school leavers would be consigned to the dole and never achieve anything in life. How did this "lost" generation fare in life? Most guys in their late 40s-early 50s I know seem to be doing OK. Mostly homeowners, a few council tenants, some running small businesses, a couple of redundancies not unusual, most with families, one or two spectacular success stories. Maybe it's the circles I move in, but nobody I know spent their whole life out of work. It's probably fair to say most got rewards back from life that match the effort they put in.

Ha Ha Ain't that the truth.

We never were a generation to listen to our elders.... Just as well...:rotfl: They really did think we were a bunch of degenerate losers.

Well we showed them :rotfl:

setmefree2

kwmlondon wrote: »

You mistake my concern for younger people for being a young person. I have a house in central London,

I'm guessing your kids can't afford a house in London and you feel sad about it?

I live in London too. I also have 2 kids 21 and 18 both at Unis outside of London and I would never, ever feed them the clap trap you're espousing.

Maybe you have had an easy life but the rest of us boomers didn't. Maybe you're paying for that now as you have no idea how to grow a spine and stop whining.

What you need to tell your kids is to grow some stones.

"Life is not fair - Get used to it" Bill Gates

setmefree2

kwmlondon wrote: »

I'm not being partisan about this, I really respected that old-school tory approach

Which was

"Get on your bike" Norman Tebbit.

"The spirit of envy can destroy; it can never build" Margaret Thatcher

the conservative party is led by people who all played rugby together at the same schools. They inherited all their success but can't deal with the concept that their success is pure luck, it's not very nice to think that somebody somewhere else has worked a damn sight harder than you but gotten far less just because your dad put you through the right school and you knew the right people when you went for the job interview.

This is news to you?

All working class kids know this from the moment they are born.

Working class parents know, however, that teaching their kids to feel sorry for themselves won't empower them.

Life is unfair - get over it!

setmefree2

kwmlondon wrote: »

Now, you can work as hard as you like, you probably won't get on. And forget the rubbish about immigrants, I'm not talking about jobs picking fruit or collecting cockles, I'm talking about middle job. The kind of jobs that should mean you can buy a house, a car, and raise a family. These jobs are going. We are scooping out out society to be the poor and the rich - we need a middle class that you can get into by working hard.

I say it again, if you work hard you should be able to get into a better life. It's not happening any longer.

TBH I don't think you understand the meaning of hard work. Sounds like you have had a very cushy life. But just because you had an easy life doesn't mean the rest of the boomers did.

When I read your posts I reminded of The Last Days of the Raj. The sun is setting on a section of British Society that's had a very easy life at the expense of the rest of us.

Thank Thatcher for your demise - she taught the working classes that we could out work the middle classes. I'm guessing you voted for her? Oh the irony.