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Debate House Prices


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Collapse in new house building.

245

Comments

  • daveyjp wrote: »
    s106 can be negotiated to zero if evidence is provided by the developer that the amounts make the scheme undeliverable.

    have you tried to negotiate one to zero? start now and come back in 3 years (and £XXXk later) when you've managed.
    stator wrote: »
    They can also waive the affordable home requirements, and have done so on many occasions.

    Due to the 'bonus' payments they get, councils are actually keen on allowing houses to be built and will fall over backwards helping new schemes get going.

    The main problem is that land owners want too much money as they see houses are selling for £300,000 each and so estimate that their land must be worth £5million, so compulsory purchase is the answer. Councils could buy the land, design the estate and then divvy up the plots, some to each developer who can just get on and build the houses. Sell some of them on the open market and keep a few for social housing. Problem solved


    Waive the affordable requirement!?! Where have you seen that, WITHOUT the developer having to pay a huge off site affordable contribution (paying for the HA to buyother housing stock not on the development)?

    Councils own a lot of the land for large urban schemes (brown field), so they would have to buy their own land, the reason they stall is the s106, The easiest land owners to deal with are greenfield private, but then guess who gets in the way, the council via planning.

  • daveyjp
    daveyjp Posts: 13,746 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    "have you tried to negotiate one to zero? start now and come back in 3 years (and £XXXk later) when you've managed."

    One Local Authority to me agrees zero contributions including affordable units on a regular basis and reduced amounts are commonplace.

    Just this week two housing schemes were approved. One had a reduction of 66%, the other 90% from what was originally requested. Neither had affordable housing contribution as the schemes just didn't stack up with it.

    Maybe this local authority can see the long game and the New Homes Bonus and Council Tax are worth having rather than killing schemes with unrealistic demands.
  • stator wrote: »
    The private sector can not supply Britain's needed housing supply.
    Time to bring back council lead building.



    that's certainly my view.


    that & that HTB should be withdrawn immediately since it looks as if, in terms of its stated aims, it's not made one iota of impact.
    FACT.
  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    stator wrote: »
    They can also waive the affordable home requirements, and have done so on many occasions.

    Due to the 'bonus' payments they get, councils are actually keen on allowing houses to be built and will fall over backwards helping new schemes get going.

    The main problem is that land owners want too much money as they see houses are selling for £300,000 each and so estimate that their land must be worth £5million, so compulsory purchase is the answer. Councils could buy the land, design the estate and then divvy up the plots, some to each developer who can just get on and build the houses. Sell some of them on the open market and keep a few for social housing. Problem solved

    do you have evidence that farmers are refusing to sell their land which has planning permission?

    do you have any evidence that councils are keen to allow housing : i.e. evidence that councils have given planning permission for a massive amount of land which has no building application?
  • CLAPTON wrote: »
    do you have evidence that farmers are refusing to sell their land which has planning permission?

    do you have any evidence that councils are keen to allow housing : i.e. evidence that councils have given planning permission for a massive amount of land which has no building application?


    Exactly, every farmer is jumping up and down when planning goes through, as that’s what makes his farm worth £5m, as it’s so hard to get.

    He won’t personally apply for planning, a developer will option the land, do the application, and buy the land on a successful planning application.

    If planning became 20x easier to obtain, land prices would crash and housing might be a bit cheaper, there a reason farm land is £9k a acre and land with planning is over a million...
  • cells
    cells Posts: 5,246 Forumite
    Why did the build rate in France not crash post 2008?

    How are they able to still output 400k homes a year plus or minus 50k?

    Was there not a credit crunch there

    hamish theory on this one is BS


    There should be a database of all councils abd their housing plans easily accessible to all. If only I had the time! If the council's collectively give out a quota of 150k homes then more than that cant be built.
  • cells wrote: »
    Why did the build rate in France not crash post 2008?

    How are they able to still output 400k homes a year plus or minus 50k?

    could it be that its easy to get planning almost anywhere in France...

    Just own a piece of land big enough to meet the local development coefficient (which give you how dense you can build) and other than building regs you're good to go.

    so for example in a rural area you might have a 15 to 100 coefficient for an area.

    buy a 2000sqm patch of ground and you can build a 300sqm house, no problems.

    makes planning a none issue in the pricing of land.
  • stator
    stator Posts: 7,441 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    CLAPTON wrote: »
    do you have evidence that farmers are refusing to sell their land which has planning permission?

    do you have any evidence that councils are keen to allow housing : i.e. evidence that councils have given planning permission for a massive amount of land which has no building application?
    How can you give permission without an application?

    The point about the land is that they want too much money, not that they aren't willing to sell. So if the councils were allowed to purchase the land at it's current use value, ie farm land or brownfield land, then it would be house building gallore. If councils controlled the master plan for all new large housing estates they could also design them sensibly to integrate transport and local services, rather than the current approach which leads to huge estates only connected by roads and no bus services because they all ouse the 'tree root' cul-de-sac layout with no through roads.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
  • stator wrote: »
    The point about the land is that they want too much money, not that they aren't willing to sell.


    The council are the body responsible for a farmer being able to sell farm land for £3m. the farmer is merely getting what the land is worth (and currently planning permission is worth 80X the cost of the raw land).

    To resolve this, they just need to zone 20 X as much greenfield (not greenbelt) land as developable. Watch prices crash overnight.

    stator wrote: »
    How can you give permission without an application?


    See my point about zoning above, the council ring an area on the map and say“all land in that area is developable, submit an application that meets criteria’s XX-YY and it will be approved, criteria such as density, amenities, affordable housing, etc.

    That is the council giving permission without an application.
    stator wrote: »

    which leads to huge estates only connected by roads and no bus services because they all ouse the 'tree root' cul-de-sac layout with no throughroads.

    Through roads in estates are avoided because of planning, you have to keep the kiddies safe, so rat runs are avoided (so again, see planning as one of the main problems!).
  • Cyberman60
    Cyberman60 Posts: 2,472 Forumite
    Hung up my suit!
    stator wrote: »
    The private sector can not supply Britain's needed housing supply.
    Time to bring back council lead building.

    One major flaw there and that's councils don't have the money, but also it's not the council's job IMO. What is really needed is to reduce the demand for housing by reducing immigration. It's no good building 500,000 homes in one year if 2 million people arrive. Simples !!! :rotfl:
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