Is being a tax avoider socially unacceptable?

TheBlueHorse

toby3000 wrote: »

I actually think it has everything to do with morals. Either you're happy to contribute to the having a functioning society or you believe that we should have a minimal state. That's fine, that's a political and moral position you can take.

Of course, Boots and Amazon are very happy to benefit from government spending, but go out of their way not to contribute.

its rubbish because "richer" people are paying more, despite living in the same functioning society. If everyone paid the same, fair enough.

It's like a hotel charging different room rates according to your salary, despite all rooms being the same. You wouldn't mind paying more if you had a better room.

Graham_Devon

TheBlueHorse wrote: »

what would you do if your builder/handyman says "£650 but i'd take £500 for cash"?

Get another quote.

As soon as that sort of offer is given I instantly wonder what other corners they are willing to cut. Dependant on the work, I'd want a waranty / certificate too which would be somewhat difficult for a job that was never actually carried out!

Boring, I know!

Loughton_Monkey

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Well, you may be saving that much on tobacco and alcohol, but you are breaking the law by a considerable margin.

So yes, the sort of shopping you are doing to avoid taxation is socially unacceptable.

Not unusually, your post is misinformed, wrong, and libellous.


Every single cigar, bottle of gin, bottle of wine or Champagne is (a) personally imported by myself and Mrs LM, (b) entirely for our own consumption, and (c) tax paid in one of the EEC countries.


Like others, you are probably falling into the trap of thinking that the UK 'guidelines' are in any way legal. They are not. Look it up. The amount you can import is unlimited, only conditional upon you personally importing the goods, consuming it yourself, and having paid tax in the EEC country in which it was purchased.


Your apology and retraction is eagerly awaited, before I consult Lord Fink for the name of his lawyers.


I continue to be proud of my efforts to inject tax into the ailing French, Italian, and Spanish economies. Presumably you believe that all forms of overseas aid are equally 'socially unacceptable'?

CLAPTON

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Get another quote.

As soon as that sort of offer is given I instantly wonder what other corners they are willing to cut. Dependant on the work, I'd want a waranty / certificate too which would be somewhat difficult for a job that was never actually carried out!

Boring, I know!

so it seems you don't pay cash due to high moral principles but because you feel you won't get value for money.

Loughton_Monkey

TheBlueHorse wrote: »

what would you do if your builder/handyman says "£650 but i'd take £500 for cash"?

My own 'trusted' regular handyman would not say that. I would ask how much he wants. He would say £500. I would give him 25X£20 notes and not ask for a receipt.


I am quite happy, 'clean', and totally devoid of any guilt or any hint of having broken any law.


He will, I assume, go back home and enter the £500 fully into his books and account faithfully to HMRC for the VAT and tax on profits that is due.


I spend a lot more than £500 a year in cash - with pubs, bars, entrance fees, market traders, taxis, etc. and I do not for one minute wonder whether or not the trader is paying his taxes....


[Unless, of course, I am at Starbucks, in which case I assume they are not.] Either way, it's not my direct problem.

chewmylegoff

michaels wrote: »

...cos I do it, paying money into my pension and having an ISA.

Based on Milliband's rhetoric against tax avoiders should we assume Labour would move to close these 'loopholes' in the tax system?

I want to know if Ed Milliband has an ISA and a pension. If he does then he should probably resign right now.

chewmylegoff

TheBlueHorse wrote: »

what would you do if your builder/handyman says "£650 but i'd take £500 for cash"?

Offer him £400, cash.

chucknorris

chewmylegoff wrote: »

I want to know if Ed Milliband has an ISA and a pension. If he does then he should probably resign right now.

That would be a total disaster! What if labour ended up with a credible leader, ok it isn't likely, but it isn't impossible either.

Please Ed I beg you, please stay for the sake of the Tory voters, we really do need you.

chewmylegoff

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I believe there is a key difference between the "everyday" tax avoidance and those that go out of their way to avoid tax.

So paying into an ISA, which is a defined scheme which th egovernment itself has created can't really be classed as tax avoidance. To class that as tax avoidance, you'd have to suggest our portion of tax free pay is also tax avoidance.

However, if, say, you set up a company that says, as a car dealer you lost £x when you've not sold a single car to anyone (and your job has nothign to do with either carsa, or indeed, sales), to avoid hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of tax.... Slightly different to putting money into an ISA.

Though both legal.

I guess my thoughts are that if you are inventing something to avoid tax, then morally it's wrong. If you are just using government designed schemes, open to all, I can't even see that that can be recognised as "avoidance".

Milliband's rhetoric was nothing to do with ISA's or Pensions.

They are not both legal because if you set up a business for the express purpose of pretending that a load of your normal day to day expenses are actually expenses incurred in the pursuit of a trade which you are not really carrying on and you therefore have made a huge loss which you then offset against your other taxable income then that is illegal tax evasion as the costs were not incurred wholly, exclusively and necessarily in pursuit of a trade and are therefore not tax deductible and therefore you have improperly booked a taxable loss.

The only reason anyone gets away with that sort of thing is because HMRC fail to prosecute it - it isn't any more legal than driving at 140mph around the M25 when the police happen not to be there to catch you.

chewmylegoff

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Get another quote.

As soon as that sort of offer is given I instantly wonder what other corners they are willing to cut. Dependant on the work, I'd want a waranty / certificate too which would be somewhat difficult for a job that was never actually carried out!

Boring, I know!

Do you ever tip someone in cash in a restaurant?

How about when you buy something in a newsagent? Do you insist that they close the till drawer and watch whilst they enter the correct amount so it is properly reflected on the till receipt. What about if you buy something from a market stall? Do you ask to see their VAR return and reconcile the numbers to make sure they have declared all of their income properly?