Can I refuse to return leased equipment?

getmeouttahere

cte1111 wrote: »

Hire purchase is not the same as a lease though. When you lease something, it remains the property of the leasor. The fact that there is an option to pay a payment after x years to buy it, does not make any difference.

So if you keep the item and don't keep up the payments, then you will effectively be stealing it from the legal owner.

With a HP agreement, the goods remain the property of the finance company until the end of the term so how is that different?

Just trying to get my head around it and see what my options are.

I'm not convinced about the 'stealing' claim but would appreciate it if anyone can clairfy.

chanz4

As they are not your goods and are on hire, not returning is theft

getmeouttahere

Thanks.

I have looked at the lease agreement and all it says is that they have the right to demand immediate return of the equipment. However, I have looked at the guarantor agreement and it makes no mention of the guarantor being responsible for the return of the equipment. Not sure if that helps?

getmeouttahere

I have just been reading on the original suppliers website and they advertise an option to return the equipment after 2 years with nothing further to pay so it sounds like the lease company are trying it on a bit.

Somerset

getmeouttahere wrote: »

I have just been reading on the original suppliers website and they advertise an option to return the equipment after 2 years with nothing further to pay so it sounds like the lease company are trying it on a bit.

How are they trying it on ?


You will not return the goods but insist on making a reduced (non contractual ) payment ..... still retaining the equipment.


Incidentally I thought your other previous post was disingenuous.


''it says is that they have the right to demand immediate return of the equipment. However, I have looked at the guarantor agreement and it makes no mention of the guarantor being responsible for the return of the equipment.''


If you provide convenient times/dates I'm sure they'll deal with the recovery without undue effort from yourself.


Both issues are easily solved - allow the company to regain the leased equipment . What you clearly want is the retain the equipment and pay <whatever> for however long.


The lease company are entitled to repossess the goods. Whether they go the legal route to do that or CCJ or attachment of earnings, you'll have to wait and see.

getmeouttahere

Somerset wrote: »

How are they trying it on ?

Because if you read properly, the equipment supplier offer a termination clause after 2 years (so another couple of payments and I could give the equipment back and owe nothing, costing me about £380), whereas the lease company are trying to use bullying tactics to demand the equipment back and will still pursue for the remainder of the outstanding lease (which is around £3500).

Somerset wrote: »

Incidentally I thought your other previous post was disingenuous.


''it says is that they have the right to demand immediate return of the equipment. However, I have looked at the guarantor agreement and it makes no mention of the guarantor being responsible for the return of the equipment.''

Have you even read my 'disingenuous post'?

The agreement between the lease company and the limited company (which no longer exists), states that they have the right to demand immediate return of the equipment. HOWEVER, the GUARANTOR AGREEMENT between the lease company and MYSELF PERSONALLY makes zero mention of the return of the goods.

Let me just make it 100% crystal clear, I am not denying being liable for the remainder of the lease. If you read the first post, I approached the lease company asking for help. If they had even been willing to discuss the matter, that would be different but they have refused point blank to even discuss it.

Somerset

getmeouttahere wrote: »

Because if you read properly, the equipment supplier offer a termination clause after 2 years (so another couple of payments and I could give the equipment back and owe nothing, costing me about £380), whereas the lease company are trying to use bullying tactics to demand the equipment back and will still pursue for the remainder of the outstanding lease (which is around £3500).



Have you even read my 'disingenuous post'?

The agreement between the lease company and the limited company (which no longer exists), states that they have the right to demand immediate return of the equipment. HOWEVER, the GUARANTOR AGREEMENT between the lease company and MYSELF PERSONALLY makes zero mention of the return of the goods.

Let me just make it 100% crystal clear, I am not denying being liable for the remainder of the lease. If you read the first post, I approached the lease company asking for help. If they had even been willing to discuss the matter, that would be different but they have refused point blank to even discuss it.

Yes, I've read the thread and comprehended it.


Your post is entitled ''Can I refuse to return leased equipment? You then explain :
''so it doesn't make sense to hand the equipment back and be left with nothing to shop for the 2 years of payments''


Apart from your post I'm replying to - where have you given any indication you want to return the goods ? So you've provided the answer yourself, make the contractual payments until you hit the 'date' and hand back. Big assumption missed payments, defaults won't invalidate this option ? Also you assume this option is available to you ( guarantor ) as opposed to just the customer ( dissolved company ).


The lease company - dissolved company - guarantor scenario is almost irrelevant. As guarantor you are liable for the full balance. As the guarantor, I would have thought that anything that mitigates the final bill was worth doing including returning the equipment. You implied this wasn't your responsibility.

getmeouttahere

I'm not going to argue with you as that's not what I'm here for. I've come here for advise and help, not for judgement.

cte1111

getmeouttahere wrote: »

With a HP agreement, the goods remain the property of the finance company until the end of the term so how is that different?

I'm not convinced about the 'stealing' claim but would appreciate it if anyone can clairfy.

With HP, the asset is yours, you just haven't finished paying for it yet. If you stop paying for it, then they will be able to reclaim it, much like the bank will claim your house if you stop paying the mortgage. However it is legally yours, it just has finance secured upon it.

With a lease, the asset is owned by the lessor, it is not yours at any point, unless you buy it at a later date. You are in the latter category, neither you nor your former business own the asset, you need to give it back or continue to pay the monthly amounts.