Open Letter from Syriza Leader to German People

LydiaJ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

I agree. The direction of the EU politically has always been this route though. Nothings changed since it's formation. The creation of the Eurozone was the step in fiscal unity. As is the case now. To stay in the club policies have to come into alignment. Germans who retire at say 65 aren't going to be happy subsidising Greeks who retire at 60. That's a catalyst for civil unrest. Along with the rise of extremism on both sides of the political divide.

Indeed that is its direction. But it has never been a direction that the peoples of the constituent nations have wanted.

I am at a loss to understand how a collection of nations that think of themselves as democratic can have set up a supranational body that is so entirely undemocratic. Why does so much of the power lie with the unelected and unaccountable commissioners rather than with the MEPs, when the power within each of the member nations generally lies with elected representatives who have to keep their electorates happy or get voted out of office?

Thrugelmir

LydiaJ wrote: »

Indeed that is its direction. But it has never been a direction that the peoples of the constituent nations have wanted.

Have they ever been asked? This is the crux of the recent debate in the UK. I suspect that events in Greece, which may spin off into Spain, Eire and Hungary , will be the focus of attention now though.

TheBlueHorse

i thought Eire was ok now?

Generali

LydiaJ wrote: »

Indeed that is its direction. But it has never been a direction that the peoples of the constituent nations have wanted.

I am at a loss to understand how a collection of nations that think of themselves as democratic can have set up a supranational body that is so entirely undemocratic. Why does so much of the power lie with the unelected and unaccountable commissioners rather than with the MEPs, when the power within each of the member nations generally lies with elected representatives who have to keep their electorates happy or get voted out of office?

I suspect the reason is because in much of Europe the attachment isn't to the nation state but to the region or, more likely, to the town or village. I believe in Italy they have a word for it, the Campanile(?), the bell tower.

Italy and Germany only became nation states as we see them today in the C19th.

The UK and particularly England and Wales are unusual in that the larger political body united early, something that must have created terrible logistical problems (imagine trying to get a message from Cardiff to Leeds in winter without roads!!!). It'd take the best part of a day even now with decent roads and the internal combustion engine!

My thought is that giving up power to Paris/Berlin/Rome isn't really giving up anything as you retain much spending power within the locality. Yes you send cash to Paris and then Paris decides how much to remit back but you keep the decisions.

As such, giving powers to Brussels is nothing, the central power simply moves up a notch.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

LydiaJ wrote: »

I am at a loss to understand how a collection of nations that think of themselves as democratic can have set up a supranational body that is so entirely undemocratic.

Why does so much of the power lie with the unelected and unaccountable commissioners rather than with the MEPs

I am at a loss to understand how anyone can think the EU is undemocratic.

The 28 commissioners are appointed by the elected governments of each EU state, one per state. This is in effect a form of representative democracy.

The college in it's entirety must then be approved by the directly elected members of the European Parliament.

As must the selectee for European President.

How is that undemocratic?

BlondeHeadOn

News this morning:

Greece economy: Merkel rules out more debt relief

BBC link here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31072321

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has ruled out cancelling any of Greece's debt, saying banks and creditors have already made substantial cuts.

But Mrs Merkel told the Hamburger Abendblatt newspaper she still wanted Greece to stay in the eurozone.


So that's all sorted then. Move along please.....

antrobus

Generali wrote: »

....The UK and particularly England and Wales are unusual in that the larger political body united early,...

it is manifestly declared and expressed that this realm of England is an empire, and so hath been accepted in the world, governed by one supreme head and king having the dignity and royal estate of the imperial crown of the same, unto whom a body politic, compact of all sorts and degrees of people divided in terms and by names of spirituality and temporalty, be bounden and owe to bear next to God a natural and humble obedience

Act of Appeals 1533. The words of one Thomas Cromwell. That Wolf Hall chap. It's why people write books about him.

Although of course the UK didn't exist until 1707. So it's only about 150 years older that Italy for example.

Generali wrote: »

.. something that must have created terrible logistical problems (imagine trying to get a message from Cardiff to Leeds in winter without roads!!!)....

They had roads. They might not have been very good roads. But they did have them. And there were often networks of royal messengers to speed things up.

antrobus

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

.....How is that undemocratic?

It is undemocratic because it makes decisions that I don't agree with.

CLAPTON

BlondeHeadOn wrote: »

News this morning:

Greece economy: Merkel rules out more debt relief

BBC link here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31072321

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has ruled out cancelling any of Greece's debt, saying banks and creditors have already made substantial cuts.

But Mrs Merkel told the Hamburger Abendblatt newspaper she still wanted Greece to stay in the eurozone.


So that's all sorted then. Move along please.....

presumably democracy in action

MARTYM8`

BlondeHeadOn wrote: »

News this morning:

Greece economy: Merkel rules out more debt relief

BBC link here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31072321

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has ruled out cancelling any of Greece's debt, saying banks and creditors have already made substantial cuts.

But Mrs Merkel told the Hamburger Abendblatt newspaper she still wanted Greece to stay in the eurozone.


So that's all sorted then. Move along please.....

Maybe its about time we made Germany pay back all the debts we let it off paying - would be a tidy sum in accrued interest by now! Or alternatively just have the rest of Europe net it off any repayments to German banks.

The Germans never repaid their debts - why should the Greeks?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Agreement_on_German_External_Debts